newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

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damaskv8daved
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newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by damaskv8daved » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:19 pm

Hi everyone who's online today and happy easter,I have had my 800 about 8 months but need some help with a few problems starting to happen
1,The two speed fan is only working on one speed,I've been told it could need the relay changing but I can't find it,i've been told it is a large black one not yellow as the car has air con and it is not the standard relay(think it's the one Rimmers have a picture of on there web site priced about £80
2,I seen a post about someone making sills for these cars,does that include the coupe
3,the window seem's to stick half way up sometimes and won't go all the way up for quite a while after numerous tries,this happens on the drivers side sometimes but mainly on the passenger side
I would appreciate any helpful reply's no doubt these are topic's you've probably come across before but as I'm a newbie sorry to bring them up again,thanks Dave

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scoobyh123
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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:45 pm

Welcome aboard!

Firstly - what year is your car? On the later ones the cooling fan was controlled by the MEMS unit and this is known to give problems with no real solution as far as i know. If it's the earlier one with the two thermal switches in the radiator (just below where the top hose joins the rad) then one or both of those could be faulty. Could also be the wiring or as has been suggested, the twin fan relay. I assume you have twin fans on it?

Re the window problem, that's almost certainly the dashboard fusebox - you'll have to remove and resolder it then replace it - make sure the keys are out of the car before disconnecting the battery too!

As for the sills, if you contact Simon Hubbard on here, he may (if you're lucky) have a pair or two of coupé sills left or be able to get some more made.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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damaskv8daved
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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by damaskv8daved » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:56 pm

Thanks for the swift reply,the year of the car is 1998 but it only has a single fan which iv'e been told is two speed and there are no thermal switches in the rad it's in the thermostat housing with the gauge sender

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scoobyh123
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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:28 pm

You could try a new temperature sensor (the one in the 'stat housing) but i know some people have even tried replacing the MEMS ECU, CCU etc and still not got the fan to work correctly on a late car.

Alternatively you could modify it with a sensor and adaptor in the top hose and a relay to power the fan.

Steve (Rovercoup) on here has a lot of experiemce chasing the faults on this sytem, with a bit of luck he might be along in a bit and give you a few more pointers.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by dollysprint » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:40 pm

Fan problem is almost certainly the CTS (coolant temp sensor) in the thermostat housing. Steve has a single fan turbo and I have a twin fan normally aspirated. We spent many hours trying to sort this problem and the parts list replaced was extensive including at least 6 or 7 CTS's at least 4 were brand new, special turbo specific yellow relay on the passenger side inner wing, twin fan relay on the normally aspirated, wiring loom and ECU on the normally aspirated, various free standing resistors to provoke fan operation, resistance equals temperature and a lot of head scratching. In the end the fix was yet another 2 brand new CTS's on both cars.
There a a lot of brand new faulty CTS's out there, do not rule out its faulty albeit new. If memory serves at around 98-100 degrees and a resistance of around 190-200 ohms at the Cts the fan should operate at slow speed. At around 105 degrees and resistance of 160-170 ohms the fast speed should kick in. Depending on the accuracy of your gauge these fans operate at about half way for slow and nearly 3/4 for full speed, which is really a fail safe setting. Seem to remember Steve had an issue with a voltage drop that effected his gauge too but can't remember if a new sender rather than sensor sorted that or not.

Dave
1988 Sterling saloon 2.7 Auto Pulsar over gunmetal
1990 Sterling Saloon 2.7 Auto black over storm
1993 Coupe 2.7 auto white gold 1
2005 Ford Transit 2.4 lwb, Club van
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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by traineefarmer » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Are we sure that the fan is two speed. Mine is a '98 reg '97 build and I have only ever seen the fan engage at full speed.

As for the other faults:

The sticky windows could well be the fusebox, but also the mechanisms benefit from a good lube up and also poorly set window cassettes can cause similar symptoms. Mine do exactly the same and I have exhausted all of the above to try to fix them. The next step for me is to try two new (ish) cassettes as I'm starting to suspect hardened guide bushes.

As for sills, if Simon can't help I have some patterns stored with a local sheet metal works who will press another set out to order if you require.
Tom.

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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by damaskv8daved » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:50 pm

Hi again ,I've already bought the cts from Rimmers so that will be the first step,I've just had the car running out side for a bit but the fan didn't kick in at all even when putting the air con on.If yours is a similar year to mine then does it have a relay for the fan or is it part of the MEMS .As for the window I think I will try the lube first,I had a mk1 2.7 vitesse 15 years ago and the rear passenger door was jammed,when I asked a local rover gut he said try loads of WD40 inside when the window is up,I never bothered as thought this a bit hit and miss so I left it for 18 months ,got bored one day tried the WD40 hey presto two minutes later unstuck door.Anyway back to problems now ,how much does he charge to make the sills if simon does'nt have any thanks again for the help.(Oh forgot to mention just passed in the opposite direction a 800 pick up looked a bit longer than usual so might of been an old hearse converted will keep a look out and try and get a picture of it)

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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:06 pm

Something a bit better than WD40 for the window rubbers, cheaper too :

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Automot ... ray/p21983

Also when the doors are open, give the door seals a good soaking in it before winter, let it soak for a while then wipe off the exceess and use it to clean/polish the parts of the door that meets the seals. Same goes for bonnet and boot lid. No more doors (or anything else) frozen shut in winter!

It's also a useful lubricant on things like the headlamp adjuster screws, anything going into plastic, door/boot/bonnet latches and locks and so on.

Re the CTS, change it in the morning when the engine has had time to cool down completely - once the old one is loose, get the new one ready to fit and wind the old one out and drop the new one in. Then screw it home. This minimises your coolant loss which reminds me - don't forget to top it up after!

Might also pay to check and/or renew the 'stat, it might just not be getting hot enough to operate the fan. First stage cooling (slow speed if yours is a two speed) will be somewhere about 90-95C, second stage will be about 100-105C.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by traineefarmer » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:41 pm

damaskv8daved wrote:Hi again ,I've already bought the cts from Rimmers so that will be the first step,I've just had the car running out side for a bit but the fan didn't kick in at all even when putting the air con on.If yours is a similar year to mine then does it have a relay for the fan or is it part of the MEMS .As for the window I think I will try the lube first,I had a mk1 2.7 vitesse 15 years ago and the rear passenger door was jammed,when I asked a local rover gut he said try loads of WD40 inside when the window is up,I never bothered as thought this a bit hit and miss so I left it for 18 months ,got bored one day tried the WD40 hey presto two minutes later unstuck door.Anyway back to problems now ,how much does he charge to make the sills if simon does'nt have any thanks again for the help.(Oh forgot to mention just passed in the opposite direction a 800 pick up looked a bit longer than usual so might of been an old hearse converted will keep a look out and try and get a picture of it)
To lube the coupe windows, it is easier to remove the door card the you can get at the cable and the four rollers in each corner of the cassette which can cause problems.

There must be an external relay for the fan, I don't remember seeing any relays on my MEMS PCB when I had it apart and I doubt that such a large load would be switched by transistors. But, I may well be wrong on this...

Sills. I made a thread when I did mine:

http://rover800.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13293

The quote in the thread says £80 per pair. But that was 9/10 months ago so I would have to check prices if you wanted a pair, I doubt the price will have changed much. P+P may be a bit as they are quite long, but I guess they could be halved and welded your end.
Tom.

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'03 XC90 D5

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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by dollysprint » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:13 pm

damaskv8daved wrote:Hi again ,I've already bought the cts from Rimmers so that will be the first step,I've just had the car running out side for a bit but the fan didn't kick in at all even when putting the air con on.If yours is a similar year to mine then does it have a relay for the fan or is it part of the MEMS .As for the window I think I will try the lube first,I had a mk1 2.7 vitesse 15 years ago and the rear passenger door was jammed,when I asked a local rover gut he said try loads of WD40 inside when the window is up,I never bothered as thought this a bit hit and miss so I left it for 18 months ,got bored one day tried the WD40 hey presto two minutes later unstuck door.Anyway back to problems now ,how much does he charge to make the sills if simon does'nt have any thanks again for the help.(Oh forgot to mention just passed in the opposite direction a 800 pick up looked a bit longer than usual so might of been an old hearse converted will keep a look out and try and get a picture of it)
As stated in my earlier post the relay for the fan on the turbo models is a special yellow relay bolted to the passenger side inner wing just behind the headlamp.
To clear up any confusion the MEMS ECU contains no relays but it does control the fan in that it reads the CTS, mainly for cold start fueling ect. But it does also signal the fan relay to close when resistance/temperature is right at the CTS, therefore energising the fan circuit for operation. Simon Hubbard had the same issue on his Turbo, I believe Ron at Best of British fitted 3 new CTS's before getting one that worked. As I said do not underestimate how many faulty new CTS's are out there.

Dave
1988 Sterling saloon 2.7 Auto Pulsar over gunmetal
1990 Sterling Saloon 2.7 Auto black over storm
1993 Coupe 2.7 auto white gold 1
2005 Ford Transit 2.4 lwb, Club van
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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:11 pm

Alternatively you could use something along the lines of this :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272103597053? ... EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351222905225? ... EBIDX%3AIT

to switch the relay in for the fan. I think the Rover top hose is 34mm (that one is what i bought for my Jeep to convert it to electric fan operation) and there are other switches available in different temperature ranges including switches with two separate sets of contacts, usually about 95-90C and 105-100C that could be used to switch either slow and fast or two separate fans in the case of twin fan cars.

An idea like this can also be used to fit a later type radiator without the holes for the fan switches to an early car. Cut the top hose and fit the adaptor and switch, with the sensing face of the switch in line with the underside of the hose so the coolant flows over it (contact pins pointing down) and then connect the original wiring for the two separate switches to the appropriate elemts in the switch - extensions may be needed for the OE loom.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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damaskv8daved
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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by damaskv8daved » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:28 pm

I just want to say car electrics is something I know very little about and usually get it done by an autospark or the rover guy I use locally,most of the other stuff I do myself as I've owned an MGB Roadster for the last 30 years and have done most things to it even a v8 conversion but electrics are a no no even on this car.Back to the rover anyway should I use ptfe tape when I replace the cts or is it a taper thread or straight,also if the other guy Simon has any sills for the coupe I would be Interested in buying a pair from him.Lastly is the relay on the passenger side the one with the large yellow plug attached to it mine is bolted upside down to the slam panel if this is the one

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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:44 pm

Generally screw in sensors either have a seal or are taper threads - if you hold it up to the light and look at the profile of the thread you should see if it's a taper - the troughs will almost disappear at the electrical end but be quite obvious t the hole entry end.

Rover were well known for changing the location of various relays and components - for example i have an oddball routing of the air con pipework on my 93 Sterling. So the answer about the yellow relay is "possibly". Maybe someone with a late 2.0 turbo could be more specific but sadly i've never owned one (like my 2.7s too much! :lol: ) so can't say for sure.

As for a V8 MGB Roadster - nice one! I never understoodwhy the factory never made one, just the hardtop version. Chassis flex perhaps?
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

damaskv8daved
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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by damaskv8daved » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:01 pm

Thanks for that,I loved the 827 mk1 vitesse I had years ago and it seemed quicker than this turbo,as for the mg,I think most convertibles are usually beefed up for the lack of a roof and the rover engine stripped down to fit in the mg is lighter than the standard 1800 engine

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Re: newbie with 800 coupe turbo with a few problems

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:42 pm

The V8 engine might be lighter but produces well over twice the torque of the B-series, even if it's in twin carb form. That's what i'm thinking would cause the chassis flex.

Re the Mk1 Vitesse you had, it could have been a pre-cat model with the "full fat" 177bhp engine. However on the Mk2, the 827 kicked out 169bhp from the factory but decatting it produced 193bhp so although the Mk2 was lower compression, it had a few "tweaks" to keep the power. Either way they're still a very quick car and a rough turbo could easily lag behind a good 827. On paper a turbo should beat the 827 hands down but you get good and bad in everything.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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