Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:02 am

Yep - once I'd convinced myself I wasn't going to give myself a nasty shock, I gave it a squeeze and it now operates the fan.

Only thing left to do is get it warm and see if the fan comes on I suppose.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:28 am

It's only 12V, the bodys natural resistance is high enough to not pass current at that voltage level. Get to around 100V and you start feeling it, some people can get shocked at that level but not many, hence the use of 110V transformers and site tools for industrial sites. At 240V you'll definitely feel it and likely to get a shock.

If you've ever had a nerve conductance test, you'll know what it feels like, the maximum they go up to is about 300V but the current is limited so it's safe.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:55 pm

Ok, pretty sure my ECU control is not working.

So, I need to wire in the relevant pieces, and it seems to make sense to use the rad switch James installed in the radiator when he needed something to act as a plug.

I have the questions of an idiot, I'm afraid.

Firstly, if I remove the relay from the current control setup, will I throw some kind of fault (ie ECU doesn't see the fan, so panics)?

Secondly - which 'side' does the switching from the rad fan switch? Positive or ground? The internet is awash with wiring schematics, but I don't know which is the right one for me.

If anyone is able to rustle me up a quick wiring diagram so I know the correct parts to buy, I'm happy getting it made up - and I'd be very grateful indeed.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:37 pm

Is it a single stage (2-pin) or dual-stage (3-pin) rad fan switch Adrian? I can rustle up a diagram for you that will make use of the rad fan switch but it would be helpful to know that bit.

You'll probably find one of the wires to the rad fan switch is connected to an earth point, this is common practice and i'm fairly sure Rover did it this way on older models.

Correct me if i'm wrong, it's just a single fan on yours?
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:56 pm

Just a single fan, and a two pin rad switch.

There no wiring at all for the switch currently - it's literally acting as a bung to plug a hole.

Thanks Dave,
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:33 pm

Here you are Adrian :

Image

I could have happily drawn it on a piece of paper, photographed it and uploaded it but that was already drawn online so i "borrowed" it. It was originally designed stateside for a Dodge RAM from the look of things but it's a fairly generic circuit. Where it says about the green/blue wire from horn circuit, take that wire to an ignition switched +ve feed - it's only on the control side so the current is minimal and won't cause any problems.

Hopefully the rest is self-explanatory with what you already have and know, if not give me a shout and i'll point you in the right direction. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm

Perfect, thanks Dave.

Is the suppressor essential?
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:12 pm

mercedade wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:34 pm
Perfect, thanks Dave.

Is the suppressor essential?
In your application Adrian, strictly speaking no. It is however good practice and you can buy relays with the flywheel diode (the correct name for the "suppressor") fitted inside.

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/ ... ategory/36

Part # 140250, 40A relay with diode is the one. The idea of it is when the relay switches off, the magnetic field in the relay coil collapses which induces a back emf voltage spike which is also reverse-polarity to the supply - that's why the diode seems to be connected backwards - this is correct.

You could also use an original Rover relay, the yellow sort would be fine. You'd have to add your own flywheel diode though, loads of them on ebay, any 1N4000 series diode will do, they run from 1N4001-4007 or you can buy them from :

http://spiratronics.com/1n4007-1a-recti ... of-10.html

The end with the stripe/bar on goes to terminal 86 of the relay, other end to terminal 85 which then goes to the fan switch, the other end of which goes to earth.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:09 pm

Not done the fan yet, but one thing I have noticed is that I appear to be running lean.

Recent emissions test had my CO down to virtually zero, whilst the lambda was way up around the 1.25-1.30 mark.

It has what I would describe as a relatively lumpy idle. Nothing terrible - very quiet and clean - just a small but perceptible unevenness.

For now, I'm going to place the blame on the fact it's barely done 500 miles in a year and it has been parked up with the battery disconnected for a significant part of that time, but whilst I wait to get some MEMS-learning miles under my belt, is there anything else I should be looking at?

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14578 This thread obviously stood out, but it quickly ran WAY into territory I'm ill-equipped to understand...
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:59 pm

Usually if the MAP sensor dies, the ECU overfuels Adrian as i expect you gleaned from that thread. The two options that come immediately to mind are an air leak (common on the throttle body rubber mount on the T16 i believe) and dirty/blocked injectors.

Might be worth investing the £70-80 to send the injectors off to be ultrasonically cleaned/refurbished, lean running can destroy one of these engines! Don't know if you remember Dusans late Vitesse turbo? That engine lunched itself due to blocked injectors even melting a piston! :shock: I did have photos but they were Photobucketed so have lost them.

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/emerald-servi ... oning.html

They come back with new "O" rings as well, not sure if James had it done or not (sure i mentioned it to him and he was going to then didn't) but if it's running that lean on idle, something is very wrong somewhere.
Also worth checking all your vacuum hoses (including the brake servo one - clamp that off too to eliminate the servo as a source of air leak) just to make sure there isn't a split or something allowing an air leak to throw things out of kilter.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:59 pm

Injectors have been ultrasonically cleaned - and it's not driving as if it's massively underfuelled.

The results are kind of where I'd expect to be with an efficient and effective cat, but for the lambda reading.

If I had an air leak, I'd be expecting misfires, sluggishness and the like - or am I wildly off track?

As absolutely everything has been apart, I'll have a good look over for air leaks, but for now I think I'll hope that MEMS catches up.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:14 pm

It could be as simple as MEMS needing to catch up Adrian, something i've just thought of is the stepper motor for the idle speed control perhaps not opening as it should or maybe too much.

As i said, i couldn't remember about the injectors, have you tried a stepper motor reset? I've heard many times of the stepper motor getting out of sync when the battery has been off and MEMS is relearning. Also try spraying WD40 (it's a petroleum distillate so works for this) round the throttle body rubber mounts while the engine is idling, it should pick up any air leaks by increasing the idle speed temporarily. Also worth checking the tightness of the inlet manifold nuts. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:56 pm

Air leak currently unresolved, but only due to laziness and poor weather.

On another note, I'm trying to resolve a boot leak. Having done light seals etc, I'm settled on a very specific issue with the boot seal.

I think what's happening is that the seal does the perfect job of keeping rain out from everywhere except the bottom, where I think the 'flying lip' profile is actually directing water that's running down the underside of the tailgate back into the boot. It's not a huge amount of water, just persistent.

My worry is that I can't see how a new seal such as this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Humber-hawk- ... 872231223Q would help, as the profile remains the same.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:57 pm

That link is dead Adrian but this one isn't :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HUMBER-HAWK- ... 2710305603

However, the "fin" on the edge of it is pretty big! :shock:

Something much closer to the original profile is :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-cortina ... 1888851340

I've used that on both my Coupe and Sterling, something in the back of my mind says the Fastback seal is different but the same company does several different profiles so i'm sure they have one close to/the same as the Fastback seal.

Thing is, it won't have 23+ years of being squashed by the tailgate so will seal better. Make sure you measure the size of the aperture before you order it, the saloon and coupe boot seal is a smidge under 4m in length, i think the fastback will be around 6m at a guess.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:24 am

Doh, must have deleted an extra character when deleting all the tracking info from the link.

Yeah, appearance wise (without measuring dimensions) the profile looks exactly like the Humber, big lip and all.

This is of course assuming that the current seal is the original, obviously, but it looks very much like my previous fastback.

Will have a scout round that other shop - cheers
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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