My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

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3pinplug
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My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by 3pinplug » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:27 am

Hi All
Thought i'd write up how I changed it and the problems encountered along the way.

First thing was to find one!! after much posting around the net and checking of gumtree, ebay etc I got offered one for a ridiculous amount 'Half the price of my car'!!. This spurred me to get off my backside and do some old fashioned legwork, I got a list of breakers in my area and phoned the one closest to where I work first who straight away said yes I have a rover 800 in, does it have the fuel filler I enquired, think so was the answer then I asked how much and waited !!! oh call it a tenner he said, I'll be there this evening I tried to calmly to respond. It was in better nick than I could have hoped so after a liberal coat of enamel and three coats of Hammerite I was ready to try and fit it.

Here she is:-
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So first job is to open filler flap, remove cap and with an "8mm" socket remove the three nuts arrowed below.
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Once removed in the wheel arch get a wire brush and remove all the crud that will have built up so you can see what your doing and expose the "10mm" bolt that you need to remove arrowed below:-
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Be EXTREMELY CAREFUL removing this "10mm" bolt, get a helper to hold the bracket so when you try to undo the bolt you stop the bracket twisting, I only found out as I started turning so luckily I didn't rip mine completely off.

Now with a rubber mallet I gently tapped the outer edges of the filler neck where the three nuts were to break the seal as it has a foam gasket and seems to weld itself to the body, as you can see mine "definitely needed changing" and no surpise I was leaving fuel on the forecourt when filling!!
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The bottom of the filler has "6" pipes that need removing and this is real fun, the largest one will be Jubilee clipped on and the only way I could get it off was to hacksaw through the hump of the clip to allow removal, take care you don't cut the big pipe itself when sawing as have no idea if there still available.
once that off, remove the second largest pipe shown removed and on right of pic below, remainder were help on by pinch clips, I removed these and sourced jubilee clips instead you need the following sizes / qty:-
1 x 35 - 45mm
1 x 13 - 20mm
4 x 9.5 - 12mm
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The four remaining little pipes are an absolute pig to remove, "DO NOT" be tempted to cut the pipes and replace , this is what I was planning on doing but it will mean dropping your tank if you do! Its extremely tight to work on these.
Now this is where I ran into a "BIG PROBLEM" got two off ok then on the third the end of the tube about 1.5cm snapped off inside the end of the rubber tube!!
After a bit of ringing round I found somewhere that could sell me a splicer and bit of tube so got 2 more 9.5 - 12mm jubilees, cut just the bit of tube off with the metal end in and spliced in a bit of replacement tube, here's the splicer I used below and available for £1.39 its for 5mm tubing!!
Note the four fingers at the bottom are 2 x 5mm and 2 x 6mm so note this if you have same problem and buy correct size splicer.
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When the filler neck was out I noticed a "hole up by the filler neck inside the arch, a fellow member also recently saw the same thing so looks common - CHECK THIS on yours at this point!! If you been smelling petrol after filling up you probably have the hole as well.
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I used the metal mesh and liberal amounts of "P40 Fiberglass" in the tins you can get to fill this in, I also took opportunity whilst I had made some to strengthen up the bracket for the 10mm bolt.
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There was a bit of surface rust forming behind the bracketed area so rubbed this down and applied couple of coats of "hammerite, then got a tin of Hammerite underbody seal with extra waxoyl" from my local Halfords and applied liberal amounts of underseal over everything. Have to say this is one of the nicest underseals I have ever used so highly recommend it and at just under £6 a tin pretty reasonable to - don't forget you will need some paintbrushes, pack of 5 all different sizes from local pound shop is ideal!
Next I greased and gently winding clockwise / anti clockwise wound the 10mm bolt into the bracket to free up the threads so it was ready for re-assembly.

The refitting of the tubes is quite simply a nightmare!!! you'll soon know what I mean ! fit the neck to the fuel filler flap area first, oh don't forget there is a foam gasket round the top use the best one from the two necks you have.
Next "put the jubille clips on all the pipes then connect the four small ones first, apply liberal amounts of washing up liquid to inside of pipe and round metal tube to aid sliding them on, Next fit the big pipe then the breather, then bolt in place with the 10mm bolt. Tighten jubilees with a small spanner easier than using screwdriver.
Here's the finished article:-
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All in all allow a good day if not more to do this and have everything to hand otherwise as I found its a long walk to the local car components store.
Hope you find this "HOW TO" useful and good luck with your hunt for a neck - they are out there!
Mark

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by TDHFastback » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:48 pm

You know mark I was contemplating taking mine off the Police 827 to clean it up and hammerite it but was unsure how to do it.

This guide you have put up is super and gives me the confidence to have a go.

Thank you for posting this up with such good pictures.

Have you got any pictures of your car?

Kate :D

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by 3pinplug » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:46 pm

Hi Kate,
Glad the post of use to you makes it all worth while to know it will help.
If you get stuck when your removing it at any point drop me a mail. Just been ona 100 mile round trip today and the fuel economy is 'noticeably' better!
Regards
Mark

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by 3pinplug » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:50 pm

INTERESTING DISCOVERY!!!
The four small pipes on the filler neck DO NOT need to be part of the filler neck and could simply be made from some steel tubing, mine was knackered so i took opportunity to cut the tube open and see what was inside will post pic later.

The two small 5mm diameter fingers are joined together and you can see the loop return at the top of the bit fixed to the filler, the other two are not they appear to just be single tubes.

So you would only need to source a filler neck with a breather pipe (fairly standard on most cars) and cut the down part of the pipe to length with the other bits being able to be made up separately and then say carefully jubilee clipped to the filler pipe. If you have a flaring kit and pipe benders your sorted.

This suggestion may have already been discovered but thought i'd post anyway.

Mark

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by dead827 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:13 pm

looks like the metal brake pipe needs a clean and grease.
300,000 mile white gold sterling on lpg Gone RIP
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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by 3pinplug » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:02 am

Thank you for your extremely interesting post Dead827, makes taking the time and effort to do a write up on how to fit a 'fuel neck' so worthwhile!

For your information, I fully cleaned the entire area on both sides (incl pipes), hoses, springs etc after the last pic as when disturbing the area the road crud was everywhere and even had to refit the plastic cover which is just in front of the filler neck. When I finished cleaning I applied liberal amounts of underseal to both sides and will be doing the front inner wings this weekend.

This post was solely on the "filler neck" not on whether I have dirt on my brake pipes!!! which unfortunately you do inherently get when driving, if you spend your weekends polishing yours - then your a better man than me.

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by SJG » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:44 am

3pinplug wrote: This post was solely on the "filler neck" not on whether I have dirt on my brake pipes!!! which unfortunately you do inherently get when driving, if you spend your weekends polishing yours - then your a better man than me.

I am sure this meant as an observation as the metal pipes (fuel and brake) around this area have been known to rust through and cause problems. It was referring to the pipe being rusty rather than dirty.
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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by Richard Moss » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:39 am

Indeed, as Simon says, the brake pipes in that area are a known "weak spot", especially around that join in the left hand arch area. My preferred way to treat it is to gently scrape off the rust, apply kurust (or similar) and paint with rust proofing paint (smooth Hammerite or similar). I don't expect that dead827's comment was meant as a criticism

The info on the filler change is much appreciated and will be useful to various members here.
Out in the desert with a 1998 Grand Cherokee V8 and 1996 Grand Cherokee 4L. Back home: 1969 MGC GT

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by VitesseLad » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:43 pm

Hi Guys,

I do know of an engineering firm that will supply copper fuel filler necks for the 800 if you want to inbox me for details, they only produce them to order however so there would be a waiting time if required.
Engineering in a finer form.

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by 3pinplug » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:51 pm

Hi all

Had the comment been expressed highlighting the fact that this was a known weak area then fair enough, but a one liner like that doesn't really explain that to me or any other members. I have never heard of that being a weak spot before so can't be the only owner who wouldn't know this and as mentioned I did clean all the area (both sides) and am undersealing front wings this weekend "weather permitting", post was fuel neck related only so didn't take any other pics as thought them not really relevant. Suggest member may wish to convey a bit more info as if that is what he was actually saying then its actually very useful info and very welcome but he needs to seriously expand the content of posts in order to convey what he means.
Regards
Mark
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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by 3pinplug » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:59 pm

Hi Vitesse Lad
Nice find on the engineering firm that produces the necks, sure they'll be a lot of interest in them.
May be worth putting up your own post titledsomething like "new source of fuel necks", i know my post will get some views but have seen a lot of people looking for these so specific post may help even more poeple out.

Its good to know theres people like yourself on the case over issues like this - full credit to you!

Regards
Mark

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by Alex SBY » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:40 pm

Can an admin make this thread a sticky please? I think this is a good thread to have at the top for reference! :)
One or two 800s...

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by Richard Moss » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:31 pm

Alex SBY wrote:Can an admin make this thread a sticky please? I think this is a good thread to have at the top for reference! :)
Good suggestion - done
Out in the desert with a 1998 Grand Cherokee V8 and 1996 Grand Cherokee 4L. Back home: 1969 MGC GT

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by 3pinplug » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:39 pm

Thanks Alex / Richard, hopefully members will find it of use.

Hoping the observation regarding the '4 fingers' (little pipes) 'which seem to be the stumbling block when looking for an alternative filler neck will maybe produce some other options / possible donor vehicles.
Regards
Mark

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Re: My experience of replacing fuel filler neck

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:54 am

Hi Mark and welcome aboard!

Great write up you've done there! Can i just add something that i found recently after similar problems a few years on after welding up a similarly "distressed" fuel filler? Once i got my welded up filler off i wanted to see where it was leaking from as i couldn't see any leaks with the naked eye.

So i fitted the cap, turned it upside down and filled it with the garden hose (crude but effective! :D ) and to my dismay water started flooding out from .............................................


....................................................... the filler cap seal!!!

In fairness a short while later while i was still cursing my luck after spending an hour or so changing it when all i needed was a new cap and/or seal, some water globules formed on the weld on the "thick" breather pipe that is originally welded to the top of the filler neck. I was almost relieved to see that!

In short, well worth checking/renewing the cap or seal as a "Belt & Braces" measure too!

Out of interest, do the guys that supply copper pipe also fabricate in copper and/or aluminium? Been trying to find a firm willing to take on a short batch run of fuel filler necks and coolant header/expansion tanks, the other known weak spot of the car. Currently i have a Volvo 740 tank on mine (been on there about 4-5 years now with NO problems whatsoever) but would prefer something "Rover-shaped" but not in the cheap plastic that Rover used!

There is another solution to the filler neck problem and that's to use a kit-car filler from Europa Spares. Pricey at about £50 for just the filler cap/neck assembly then you need a length of 2" fuel hose too (£silly per metre) and something to make the small vapour recovery pipes from although copper brake pipe could easily be used.

Look forward to seeing more of your posts and your car at some shows too - is it Charleston Green and do you have any decent pics of it?
Cheers,
Dave


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