Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

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scoobyh123
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Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:11 pm

More great stuff there Jim! Hoping you'll post details of the gearbox rebuild, is the Quaife LSD a "disc" LSD or is it a variation on the Tor-Sen theme?
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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820Vitesse
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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by 820Vitesse » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:04 pm

Thanks Dave. The Quaife diff is a plate or disc type, much harsher than the Torsen type.
I am painting the casing at the moment, probably should have built it first, I will post details of the rebuild once underway.
First attempt to try the old parts in the new casing when I dropped the diff in it locked solid, took a moment to discover the early casing has been ground out in a couple areas to accommodate the larger diff, I am expecting a few more surprises like this as it goes together, hopefully they can be overcome.

A picture of the Quaife gearset in original casing.
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and a couple of random recent interior pictures

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Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:18 pm

Crikey, you've got your work cut out on that gearbox! Bet it makes a nice howl with the striaght cut gears though! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by 820Vitesse » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:24 pm

Yes should sound good but sure the novelty will soon wear off

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Marc-827-Vitesse
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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by Marc-827-Vitesse » Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:45 pm

Love this topic! The quality of the work and pictures is just breathtaking. Keep us posted please! :) :D
1989 Rover 827 Vitesse.
1982 Rover 3500 Vanden Plas.

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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by Manalishi » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:04 am

Marc-827-Vitesse wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:45 pm
Love this topic! The quality of the work and pictures is just breathtaking. Keep us posted please! :) :D
Totally agree!
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by 820Vitesse » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:34 am

Thank you Marc and Henrik, I made some progress with the gearbox.
It is definitely not a plate diff! Not sure how I got it in my head that it was but anyway stripping it down to inspect found some internal damage.

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Further inspection revealed half a driveshaft circlip jammed in the diff groove, this should be on the driveshaft and not have splines across it.

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Someone must have jammed the driveshaft in with such force, breaking the circlip, I reckon the rest of it did the damage inside the diff housing.

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The casing is painted, this is just the casing nothing inside it yet

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The countershaft stripped,

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The dog teeth on 1st, 2nd and 3rd are worn to about the serviceable limit, probably just over on some but due to the cost of these parts I will test it on the road before replacing anything.

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The countershaft cleaned and reassembled with new bearings

Image

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Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:46 am

Eek! Looks like a marginal rebuild there Jim! You'll get away with it for light road use but i suspect on the track there would be many strange noises followed by a terminal strange noise! :shock:

The new bearings should help, at least everything will be running true to where it should be. I'd hazard a guess when the original driveshaft the gearbox was paired with was removed, the circlip stayed in the groove, subsequent fittings of different driveshafts have compounded the error causing you a damaged diff.
Is it savable? For example, could the inside of the diff be machined then have a shim fitted?

Image

A washer of the correct dimensions to fit where the circlip has chewed the central face would probably work as long as it was the same material, i'm guessing it's steel billet? I'd go for machine it smooth, washer in the freezer overnight, diff in the oven then mate them so they're an interference fit. Should work, in theory at least! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by Manalishi » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:55 am

Oh dear. I need to give my old box some attention and it looks to say the least complicated!
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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820Vitesse
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Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by 820Vitesse » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:05 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:46 am
Eek! Looks like a marginal rebuild there Jim! You'll get away with it for light road use but i suspect on the track there would be many strange noises followed by a terminal strange noise! :shock:

The new bearings should help, at least everything will be running true to where it should be. I'd hazard a guess when the original driveshaft the gearbox was paired with was removed, the circlip stayed in the groove, subsequent fittings of different driveshafts have compounded the error causing you a damaged diff.
Is it savable? For example, could the inside of the diff be machined then have a shim fitted?

A washer of the correct dimensions to fit where the circlip has chewed the central face would probably work as long as it was the same material, i'm guessing it's steel billet? I'd go for machine it smooth, washer in the freezer overnight, diff in the oven then mate them so they're an interference fit. Should work, in theory at least! :wink: :D
Agree with pretty much everything you say Dave.
I dont think that scoring would cause a failure in the short term but wear will be fast so as with the rest of it I will put it together and run it (depending what else I find). I now have a good record of all damage and worn parts so should be able to match any issues found on test to the part.

Henrik, the straight cut dog set up is quite simple compared to the standard syncromesh parts
Quaife and standard mainshaft side by side

Image

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Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:53 pm

Nice to see the straight cut (Quaife) and standard mainshafts and gear-sets side by side Jim, good comparison!

Was thinking, for road use you'd probably get away with a fibre washer (the hard fibre washers, not the soft ones) as a sacrificial component in the diff. It would take up the slack and reduce the wear from the existing damage but would be a short term solution.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by 820Vitesse » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:05 pm

I think your first suggestion is the only one that will work, it is the same scoring both sides of the diff.

I will get a countershaft comparison picture when I get back to the garage.

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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:56 pm

820Vitesse wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:05 pm
I think your first suggestion is the only one that will work, it is the same scoring both sides of the diff.

I will get a countershaft comparison picture when I get back to the garage.
The other option would be to machine the diff to take a "top-hat" bushing, again freeze it then drop it in and machine it back to where it should be with the spiral oil grooves inside.

Will be interesting to see the countershaft as well and (pushing my luck now! :P :lol: ) the third motion shaft for reverse, assuming it has one? :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by 820Vitesse » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:39 pm

A picture of the countershafts side by side, everything else looks pretty much the same although I have not put them side by side.
Image

Rather oddly the diff does not have a driveshaft circlip groove on the other side, it is the O/S, speedo drive, long driveshaft side that does not have one. First thought was this is for a PG2 with intermediate shaft so no need for the circlip.
But I checked a standard open diff from a 180hp Vitesse and that is the same, no circlip groove inside the diff on the long driveshaft side.
I do not have any spare inner CVJ's but from memory I am pretty sure they have a circlip on the inner CVJ splines on both side driveshafts.
When I next get the car in the air I will check how easily the O/S driveshaft inner CV is to move.

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Re: 1994 BRG Vitesse Fastback

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:17 pm

thanks forJim, odd about the lack of circlip groove. Perhaps with the extra length of that driveshaft it's just not needed, even at full suspension droop.

I've often wondered if a PG2 could be mated to a T-series, would be very useful on the turbo to eliminate torque-steer!
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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