Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

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Charles827si
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Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:45 pm

I thought now is an appropriate time to start my own thread about this car which I bought from Brad Bennet in 2013, who previously bought the car as a resto project off a chap called Ian in Folkestone, Kent (I think Ian was or still is a forum member?)

There was no prior history of any kind with the car (including service history) and there were probably two owners previous to Ian's ownership.
When Brad bought the car, it was in quite a rotten state with the typical known rust points on these cars being particularly worse and beyond any economic repair. Nevertheless Brad took most of his own time and expenditure to put things right as well as reasonably expected in order to pass the car onto somebody to apply the finishing touches/repairs that were required. That lucky person was myself; - and I say lucky because I have really enjoyed working on as well as owning this rare old thing since my purchase.

I would upload more photos but Photobucket runs very slowly on my Windows 10 laptop. (There must be a modern and better way to upload photos onto forum pages?)

2013
Image

Today I have ground down, filled, sanded and used 3 coats of Zinc primer (which I need to rub down) on the rear drivers wheel arch. The zinc primer I have used is best left to harden a day before I can sand down again. Then tomorrow, I will use base coat primer which I need to buy. I have a couple of new Halfords Rover Stone Grey Paint (Not the right colour but I have used before and it is actually a very good match!). Then lastly clear coat (which I also need to get).

I had previously done the same repair in January this year, but fair to say that the job I did back then was naff; and rust had blistered back through again. So this time I'm trying to do it as properly as hoped, though even with perfect standards, this is not perfect; just a repair which should last a fair bit longer then the last one!

Image

I have also replaced the ignitor unit with a new Hitachi replacement and the reason for this is quite frequently I have problems starting the car after it has already run. I have no issues starting from cold or leaving the car overnight, it only happens a short time after I use the car when I'm setting off somewhere again. I find the best thing to do is leave the car 20-30mins and then it should restart but this is not always ideal.

In the hope of curing this within the last 3-4 months, the following have been replaced; - spark plugs, better quality leads (these engines don't like cheapish ones) oil and filter and air filter. The rotor arm and distributor cap I replaced last year. I have checked these lately and they appear fine. The intake has been decoked.
I need to drive the car when I finish the bodywork to see if I'm still having the same issue since replacing the ignitor unit. If this hasn't solved the issue, then I will be looking at the distributor coil pack next thing (bearing in mind the car has done 151500 now and these coils are only good up to that mark)

Image
Last edited by Charles827si on Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Manalishi » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:18 pm

When I started looking at the 800 coupe ( I used to have a 216 twincam coupe) I really wanted an 827 manual. When the car I now own came up for sale I was eager to get it. It was displayed as "827 manual, 1993". So I hopped on o plane and went 500km south to pick it up. It turned out to be an 820 vitesse, 180 bhp turbo, from 1995. Well, that is history and I love my car, but I am still envious of you for this car Charles. Excellent effort!
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
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Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:33 pm

Your starting problem sounds more like the Main Relay Charles - the one under the dash that controls the fuel pump. I had exactly the same symptoms with my coupé shortly after getting it on the road. Removed said relay, stripped it down and resoldered the joints on the relays inside (there are two) and since then not had a problem.

I hope when you fitted the new igniter you smeared some heatsink compound on the back of it where it meets the bodywork?

There is another problem that could cause hot re-start problem and that is a vacuum solenoid that vents the fuel pressure regulator vaccum connection to atmosphere to increase the fuel line pressure and overcome vapour locks. This is more commonly a problem after a long, hot run, especially in the summer and i have to say i've never encountered it.

This is a guide i found online to the Main Relay and its symptoms/repair. Oddly enough the symptoms you describe are virtually the first described in the article!

http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/ ... -relay.htm

That should point you in the right direction i hope! I'd be wary of disturbing the pick-up in the dizzy before checking/repairing the main relay especially as not only do the symptoms fit the relay but it's a known trouble spot! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by SJG » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:46 pm

A nice write up Charles, I have followed with interest the progress you've made since getting your lovely car from Brad. Keep us posted and enjoy the car.
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:49 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:Your starting problem sounds more like the Main Relay Charles - the one under the dash that controls the fuel pump. I had exactly the same symptoms with my coupé shortly after getting it on the road. Removed said relay, stripped it down and resoldered the joints on the relays inside (there are two) and since then not had a problem.

I hope when you fitted the new igniter you smeared some heatsink compound on the back of it where it meets the bodywork?

There is another problem that could cause hot re-start problem and that is a vacuum solenoid that vents the fuel pressure regulator vaccum connection to atmosphere to increase the fuel line pressure and overcome vapour locks. This is more commonly a problem after a long, hot run, especially in the summer and i have to say i've never encountered it.

This is a guide i found online to the Main Relay and its symptoms/repair. Oddly enough the symptoms you describe are virtually the first described in the article!

http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/ ... -relay.htm

That should point you in the right direction i hope! I'd be wary of disturbing the pick-up in the dizzy before checking/repairing the main relay especially as not only do the symptoms fit the relay but it's a known trouble spot! :wink: :D
Thanks for pointing the main relay possible suspect there Dave. I had read into these things with dry joints before, but weirdly I never thought to look at this firstly! So that's what I will do soon. I have actually replaced the fuse board under the dash recently as well with a used part I was given because I had issues with the lights on my dashboard, and I thought that was safer then me trying to solder the existing one with my careless hand eye coordination!

When you say heatsink compound on the igniter what sort of product thing do I need to buy? Before I fitted the unit I just sanded the rust off the surface of the bit the igniter bolts onto. I used the old bolts because the new ones which were supplied were shorter then the originals - oddly.
I don't want to disturb the coil if I can help it, so hopefully I don't need to.
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:00 pm

Manalishi wrote:When I started looking at the 800 coupe ( I used to have a 216 twincam coupe) I really wanted an 827 manual. When the car I now own came up for sale I was eager to get it. It was displayed as "827 manual, 1993". So I hopped on o plane and went 500km south to pick it up. It turned out to be an 820 vitesse, 180 bhp turbo, from 1995. Well, that is history and I love my car, but I am still envious of you for this car Charles. Excellent effort!
Flying 500km is quite some traveling to buy a car that wasn't what you were expecting, but your story ended well - your happy with your car and that's the main thing for you! They are good cars those T-series turbos from what I hear people say. As for the 216twincam coupe, there was a certain famous English footballer (Michael Owen) who was once a proud owner of a blue example when new. Recently he did a road test which is somewhere on the internet of the car, (I'm not sure if it was the same example he owned) and he still very much liked the car.
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:50 pm

I found the thread which Ian made when he was selling this car. Turns out he had the same starting problem that I have with the car back in 2011.
viewtopic.php?t=7844
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:47 pm

This is the sort of thing i mean by Heatsink Compound Charles :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thermal-Heats ... xy4YdTRApT

It does dry out in use so periodically i remove the igniter, clean it with something like isopropyl alcohol, carb cleaner or similar and re-apply the compound. In fact i need to re-do the Sterling and do the coupé and the Volvo as i've not done those yet.
If you look closely you'll see where there was a small spot applied in the factory - you don't need much but you do need a bit more than the factory put on. Just a light smear but it's cleaner to put a few spots on the igniter and then smear it around by rubbing the igniter on the bodywork where it lives. Don't get it on your clothes or hands as it's difficult to wash off!

It's often called Thermal (or Thermic) Grease and a few other things i can't think of just now but heatsink compound is a good umbrella term for it.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Manalishi » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:21 am

Charles827si wrote:
Manalishi wrote:When I started looking at the 800 coupe ( I used to have a 216 twincam coupe) I really wanted an 827 manual. When the car I now own came up for sale I was eager to get it. It was displayed as "827 manual, 1993". So I hopped on o plane and went 500km south to pick it up. It turned out to be an 820 vitesse, 180 bhp turbo, from 1995. Well, that is history and I love my car, but I am still envious of you for this car Charles. Excellent effort!
Flying 500km is quite some traveling to buy a car that wasn't what you were expecting, but your story ended well - your happy with your car and that's the main thing for you! They are good cars those T-series turbos from what I hear people say. As for the 216twincam coupe, there was a certain famous English footballer (Michael Owen) who was once a proud owner of a blue example when new. Recently he did a road test which is somewhere on the internet of the car, (I'm not sure if it was the same example he owned) and he still very much liked the car.
When I got the smaller coupe I flew 650km. :) Our dilemma is there are no cars here so the few that pops up usually tend to be far away. The 216 was great, with the Honda twincam it was fairly quick and never missed a beat. The large coupe is a totally different car and I love it. I've had it for 7-8 years now and it's my main car during the dry season.

I agree on the idea of the main relay. I had this problem with the 216 and it was very simple to resolder the relay. I followed the instructions in the link above and it cured it. (This was the only problem I ever had with that car.)
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by SJG » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:32 pm

Hi Charles, just to let you know I have the coupe sills, I will send you a PM message.
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:38 pm

SJG wrote:Hi Charles, just to let you know I have the coupe sills, I will send you a PM message.
Cheers Simon. Just given the driver side rear wheel arch another two coats of base primer today. The driver sill is in reasonable condition, but best thing to have a 'spare pair' of sills for sure. The passenger side sill may need to be done in the not so distant future. :)
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:41 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:This is the sort of thing i mean by Heatsink Compound Charles :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thermal-Heats ... xy4YdTRApT
I have something similar. It may have dried out in the tube now after sparing use :? I'll have a look see. Cheers
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

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Charles827si
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:48 pm

Manalishi wrote:
Charles827si wrote:
Manalishi wrote:
I agree on the idea of the main relay. I had this problem with the 216 and it was very simple to resolder the relay. I followed the instructions in the link above and it cured it. (This was the only problem I ever had with that car.)
Very credible possibility no doubt. I should dig out the old hard manual I have. Mind you Steve (rovercoupe) sent me one on a CD and I have that somewhere to dig out. :D The main relay has caused scratching of heads among Honda and Rover drivers for many years and still does. This could be the first time I've experienced the dilemma in recent times. :!:
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

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Charles827si
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:27 pm

I got the wheel arch repair complete (or nearly as good as) yesterday afternoon. It turned out slightly better then I thought. There are still some marks on the lower quarter panel under the plastic trim which I hadn't filled properly before painting. The main thing is the repair should be fairly more long lasting then last time.

You'll notice I went to the dark side and fitted some Vit 17inch wheels. I had these refurbished last month after they were sitting in my storage unit for nearly two years. So I decided what the heck, and fitted Avon Tyres as well including the spare.
Image
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Nuts4my827 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:42 pm

Looking good.

Few things:
Did you fully treat the inside of the arch corner? thats where they rust from. Condensation...
Is the car on jacks/stands in that picture, looks kinda high. Also what size tyres did you fit?
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95 827 Stirling: Nightfire Saloon.
96 Coupé 827 Manual White Gold.
97 Coupé 820 Vitesse Gunmetal.
99 820 Vitesse Nightfire Fastback. SERIOUS amount of welding done. Lived in a fettid garage for years.
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