Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

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Charles827si
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:42 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:30 pm
When you start the car Charles, if you turn the key to position 2 (igniton and other warning lights, no starter action yet), you should see the "PGM-Fi" warning light illuminate for a few seconds and hear the fuel pump hum at the same time.

Do you wait for the PGM-Fi light to go out before turning to position 3 (Start) or do you just turn the key straight to position 3 as soon as you get in?

Have you added any ATF to the engine oil at any time?

Also, when did you last check the HT leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm?
I always wait for the PGMFI light to extinguish before turning the key to position 3.
I added some mineral ATF to the engine but I'm aware that fully synthetic would be more suitable.
HT Leads are checked all ok. Rotor Arm, dizzy and coil pack have all been replaced in the last 3/4 months.

Was watching a Youtube vid of a Honda with a blown gasket and the starting issues were pretty much what I've had.
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
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scoobyh123
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:32 pm

It should fire more or less instantly if you let the PGM-Fi light go out then turn to the start position.

Something else you could try before getting the compression tester out :

https://www.toolstation.com/methylated-spirit/p99550

Add that to 1/4 tank or less of petrol - don't add any petrol just the meths as long as it's 1/4 tank or less. If the yellow "Feed Me" light is on, you could add a couple of gallons (9L in new money) but otherwise no more than a couple of litres just to flush it into the tank. Easiest way is with a fuel can, half full and add the meths to the can then add the entire contents of the can to the tank.

What i'm thinking is condensation in the tank, settles overnight at the bottom of the tank so it's pulling water through, makes cold starting tricky and gives an uneven idle.

I usually put a 2L bottle of meths through once a year on mine to keep the condensation at bay. It's better if i use it more regularly but if i don't, it tends to biuld up condensation more.

Something else i've found, 50ml (that's a pub double or about an egg cup full) of ATF in a full tank of petrol, preferably synthetic ATF, is amazing at cleaning injectors. I've tried it in my Volvo then because i was impressed with the results, tried it in the Sterling - even more impressive! Mentioned it to a few other people online, they tried it as well, one in a 760 Volvo similar to mine, the other in a J plate 820Si - all very good results.

For heavy duty injector cleaning, 50ml in half a tank works nicely! Do the meths first though, in case it is condensation.

If nonne of the above helps any then it's time to buy yourself a compression tester. I have one that you'd be welcome to borrow but with the cost of sending it to you then sending it back again, it would be almost as cheap for you to buy one then you'd have your own. I can explain how to do it, it's not just a case of remove a plug and screw it in, especially on the 827, there's a couple of other things to do as well. Needs to be done on a hot engine as well which is fun! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Charles827si
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:51 pm

Except it hasn't fired up instantly for about 2 weeks now, and as I say Dave I always wait for the PGMFI light to extinguish to make sure the fuel pump is primed.
So what I've suggested is; there are other problems.
And I already know the cylinder is bad because I did the compression test last year, and Ive had the test done since.

And like Ive said recently, I've used injector cleaner..recently.
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
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scoobyh123
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:57 pm

Hmmm, had forgotten you mentioned injector cleaner recently. Give the meths a try but can you remember what the compression figures were and did you disable the fuel pump before doing the compression test/ Also was it the last cylinder you tested?
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Charles827si
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:07 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:57 pm
Hmmm, had forgotten you mentioned injector cleaner recently. Give the meths a try but can you remember what the compression figures were and did you disable the fuel pump before doing the compression test/ Also was it the last cylinder you tested?
Sorry Dave, I'll have to be off tonight. I'll let you know the details in a pm tomorrow. :)
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

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scoobyh123
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:39 pm

No worries Charles, getting a bit sleepy myself too! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Charles827si
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:37 am

Having pondered what to do about the coupe yesterday (and not done anything work wise on it yesterday evening) I thought I would see if it starts this morning.

The battery was fully charged when I took the charger off yesterday.

The car started first turn of the key (as it used to do regularly)

I've left it running for about 10 mins. Still got the same steam symptoms on start up. So I'm not going to be starting the car again until I flush the coolant and replace it with water.

I still need to see about the alternator belt and do a new compression test.
It's more likely to be the weekend when I get around to those jobs.
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

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scoobyh123
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:53 am

Hi Charles,

have you ever added any meths to the fuel tank? I'm sure i mentioned this before and you said you would but did you?

All fuel has a water content and this often shows as steam from the exhaust on a cold engine. Any condensation in the tank will add to this and cause rough running.

Meths will get rid of any condensation in the tank by forming an emulsion with the water which is soluble in petrol and can then be burned off during combustion.

Worth adding some ATF to the engine oil, it will help clean the engine internally, revive oil seals (helping to prevent leaks), clean the hydraulic lifters (which could be another cause of poor compression) and generally improve things inside.
Also worth adding a small amount (egg-cupful to a full tank for normal cleaning) of ATF to the petrol tank as well, once the meths has done its stuff. I know Carlube ATF-U works well for all of this, i haven't tried others as i don't need to buy them, it covers both cars for the gearboxes and PAS fluid and several other things too.

Confused about the alternator belt though? :?
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Charles827si
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:16 am

Funnily enough Dave I just bought some fuel system cleaner with meths yesterday.
I understand that you have to add it before topping up the fuel tank? Might be wrong.

I know you mentioned this and adding ATF before. I looked for synthetic ATF on Monday. I could only see mineral on the shop shelves (which I have already)
Synthetic ATF is supposed to be better right?
Today actually there was not as much condensation on start up and the car ran very smooth which was a good thing.
I let it run until the rad fan came on. So at least i know ive got that part of the rad job right.

Regarding the alternator; I feel it's most likley the belt that needs re tensioning.

Since the car started up no problem today, the starter motor can be ruled out with more certainty.
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

User avatar
scoobyh123
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Posts: 10036
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:27 pm
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:15 am

A fuel system cleaner with meths? Odd! Through experimentation, it's been proved the most effective ratio of fuel to meths is 10:1 so if you have 18L (4 gallons or 1/4 tank) then you'll need 2L of meths :

https://www.toolstation.com/methylated-spirit/p99550

The mark-up on proprietorially available stuff is horrendous.

Many shops don't stock the sort of ATF that works best for these things because they're not high profit for them - plenty on fleabay though :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... u&_sacat=0

Why do you think the alternator belt needs retensioning? It might be loose but that isn't why it's not charging the calcium battery. Maximum output is 14.4V on a cold regulator from the original alternator, a calcium battery needs 14.7V just to start charging. That's why i developed the diode mod to alter the output voltage. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

User avatar
Charles827si
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Posts: 1163
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:08 pm
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Re: Charles' early 92 827 manual coupe

Post by Charles827si » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:26 am

Apologies for confusion. I've bought fuel injector cleaner (or system cleaner) and meths seperately.

Used to get squealing sounds from the engine, until only recently.
Made me wonder if the belt is lose?
Charles 'Yorks'
"88 827si Fastback (manual) - Mum owned from new
"92 827 Coupe (manual)
"88 827sli Saloon (auto)
2011 Lexus IS220D F Sport
It's a stick shift? No, It's a grip shift!
ImageImage

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