Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

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SEGUBJO
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by SEGUBJO » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:23 pm

Just to check that the Numbers on the plate are the same as on the documents

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by austinpowers » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:31 pm

Looks nice :D I do like the 6 clocks!

Dave, isn't the C27A4 the accord engine, with different intake? Never heard of the A3 version. But the A2 is the none cat version found in the UK Legend and 827 from 87 to 90.
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:38 pm

austinpowers wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:31 pm

Dave, isn't the C27A4 the accord engine, with different intake? Never heard of the A3 version. But the A2 is the none cat version found in the UK Legend and 827 from 87 to 90.
No, both the A3 and A4 are leaded fuel Andy as far as i know, so not designed for the USA market who were the only ones to use the C27 in the V6 Accord Coupé (same shape as the 600 but a Coupé) and they haven't had leaded fuel for donkeys years unless i'm missing something.

The UK Accord V6 models didn't happen until 1998-02 with the J30A which also had VTEC and pumped out 200bhp - not to be confused with the C30-VTEC as found in the NSX with 276bhp! That has a different inlet manifold as it doesn't need the different length intake tracts, it's all done on the VTEC system instead.
I believe someone in the USA has transplanted the 3.0 C30 VTEC engine (including VTEC system) from a crashed NSX into a Sterling 827SLi - the USA spec that equates most closely to our Sterling trim level.

I daresay the A3 and A4 would happily run unleaded but it would be nice to find out what they were fitted to. Rover weren't the sort of company to go to the expense of designing and making a decat box (GEX33554) for the Mk2 if it wasn't necessary for the power output, they would have just used a Mk1 system instead. I think the "Leaded Fuel" thing was a smoke screen to get round some law or other about cats on post-92 vehicles.

Let's face it, the Met bought a shed-load of SD1s and stored them when they were going out of production and i'm sure some were only registered as new after 1/1/1992 and they didn't have cats so my theory is these other engines were intended for either motorsport or Police use. Either of those would agree with the extra power output. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by austinpowers » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:06 pm

The 1995 - 1997 USA accord had the C27A4 fitted which ran on unleaded and had a different intake, the Acura legend forums have some info on it.

The way i see it.

A1 was used in the USA version of legends, so were CAT versions, then the UK didn't use CATS at the time so the higher compression version (A2) was fitted, then along came the MK2 827 along with the tail end of the MK1 827 which were fitted with the "A1".

I've never heard of the "A3", but the "A4" was fitted to the USA version of the accord.
1989 Rover Sterling in Atlantic blue 35k miles. - Sold
2017 "special" edition in white
1990 Rover Vitesse manual - Sold
1990 Rover Sterling - Sold

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:20 pm

That's interesting info Andy - so far i've only seen the A3 and A4 in the Rover WSM (but without power figures) and both quote "Leaded Fuel" of 91 or 95 octane, A4 being the 91 octane if memory serves without checking.

I've been aware of the C27 powered Accord for quite a while, something i've wanted to do since i discovered that was to fit a C27 in a Rover 600 (virtually the same car) to create a sleeper but these days i don't stand much hope of ever doing that. :(
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by dollysprint » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:42 pm

Hi Henrik
Your car was built in the week before the Christmas shutdown in 1988, so look for christmas decorations under the back seat!!
Your chassis number is;-
W for Vitesse, W for Fastback, N for 2.7 non catalyst, P for PG2 manual left hand drive.
I'll search my early EPC tomorrow for that very rare Rover safe accessory, hope you still have the key!
Hope that helps and what a find you lucky man.

Dave
1988 Sterling saloon 2.7 Auto Pulsar over gunmetal
1990 Sterling Saloon 2.7 Auto black over storm
1993 Coupe 2.7 auto white gold 1
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:35 am

Thanks all! Really nice to wake up to some activity in the forum, we must keep this going instead of useless sites like facebook where every post is a like a random mix of porridge over time!

Dollysprint-Dave, thanks! This concludes my theory that this car is a non-cat version, which means I think I have the decat box Scooby-Dave is talking about. I think the purpose is not to act as a decat (decoy) but quite simply as a resonant box. When I crawled under the car there was a box in the situ of the cat, but it didn't look like a cat, so probably the box mentioned. To be fair the underside is yet to be discovered. The exhaust is totally rotten so needs to go anyway. Really big bore at 2.5inch. (not original)

Yes I have the keys. All the keys came with the car as the original purchase receipt from Spain dated the 16th of May 1991, a fully stamped service book including the cambelt change and service before it went off the road in 2009. (But started regularly and run until 2016)

Went over half the bonnet yesterday. Really gritty. The initial wash with antigrease/detergent and a polish did nothing, so hooked up my twin head rotary polisher with a heavy coarse Leachler polish I have, and even though that did some use it really needs clay. The roof is the same. But that is spring/indoors work so later.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:44 am

Henrik - i'll take it all back about potentially being a special order! :P

Glad it's a genuine Vitesse as well, i had a look on ebay but couldn't find any Mk1 Vitesse badges. Rimmers don't seem to have any either. A part number would be enormously helpful in finding the right one, maybe Dave (Dollysprint) could find the part number when he's hunting the EPC for the lock-box/safe - if so i will have a look on whatever the internet comes up with!

As for the exhaust, a 2.5" system is way too big for the 2.7, makes it slow, noisy and thirsty! A 2" O/D pipe is about as big as you can go unless you start making serious mods under the bonnet. Had a 2.5" system on my Coupé for a while, it was horrible! It's now under a 2.0 Vitesse Coupé and is much quieter and has improved performance and economy on that one.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:07 am

Yes, I browsed ebay aswell Dave, but nothing there. Putting my hope to the few barn-Vitesses that are out there. About the sleeper factor, yes a non badge car can be fun and interesting, but over here a "Vitesse" would be equally unknown as a space shuttle from Raatooras... :D But hopefully I will get this pretty machine up to standard to withstand some high speed action.

Thanks for info on the exhaust. Yes 2.5 seems crazy big even though it's a 2.7. My old D16A8/A9 had a calculated "perfect" bore of 2.25 and the revvy Hondas like some extra over the factory sizes, but to be honest that extra bhp on paper really isn't worth it. A smaller pipe is better for everything, except maybe power over 5k rpm.

Talking exhaust bore, do you (or someone else) know what the original would be? Is it as small as 2"? I see there are a few types available, I'm actually planning on getting a new "original size - aftermarket" to keep the noise down. And they're not that expensive either. I presume stainless are unobtainable unless specially made. I could do it myself but not sure my vintage body and back like that idea.

Lovely weather outside, hopefully I'll get something done during the afternoon...
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:18 pm

The original (it was original Rover as well) on mine was 1 7/8" O/D Henrik which is a bore of 1 3/4" - going up to 2" was not only easy in that respect as the bits i made fitted straight on (bore of 2" is 1 7/8") but performed well too.
At least it did once i made up a restrictor to go in the inlet of each back box (i had one each side, 2" inlet and twin 2" outlet/tailpipes) with a 35mm hole in the middle. Strange figure, works out to 1 3/8" but the interesting bit is the area of two 35mm holes is the same as the area of a 1 7/8" bore pipe, give or take a small amount.

The prototypes for these restrictor discs were made from the base of dog food tins, trimmed to fit with tin-snips and a 35mm hole in the middle. Worked though and a friend with a lathe turned up a pair of mild steel restrictors that lasted a lot longer! Restored the torque, economy and didn't lose any power, if anything i gained power and it sounded nice too! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:47 pm

Problems arising. Rusty underneath in the wrong places and some electricity problems. No fan, no front H4 lights.

And what is this?


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Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:32 pm

That looks like an aftermarket alarm Henrik, one of the keys you've got should fit the keyswitch under that round rubber cover to put it in "Valet" mode at a guess.

As for the headlamps, fan etc not working - it's probably down to lack of use. Get yourself a can of spray contact cleaner and starting with the underbonnet fusebox, spray over the fuses and relays. Then remove each in turn, inspect the contacts and fuse links, cleaning with emery tape/cloth as necessary, spray the contacts with the cleaner and refit. Once you've done the underbonnet fusebox, try the various things again and see if there's any improvement. Then do similar with the cabin fusebox under the dash. Again, try things after.

If still no improvement, move onto the switches and the connector plugs. While you have the contact cleaner spray in your hand, on the right hand suspension turret there are two large, round multiplugs. I'm guessing they will still be on the right despite yours being LHD as they are mainly for the injection system and that doesn't care where the handlebars are! :P
Pull those connectors apart (two tabs one each to release) and spray cleaner in both halves, refit, disconnect and refit a couple more times, maybe with an extra squirt of cleaner somewhere along the line, before finally refitting.

That will hopefully restore a lot of things to normal operation, don't overlook the obvious like the headlight bulb connectors and the bulbs themselves - likewise with the fans, check they actually run when powered directly from the battery.

With a bit of time, TLC and patience, you should have a fully functional electrical system again. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Manalishi
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:14 pm

Thanks Dave, onto it already with the spray and needle file. Oh I hate electrics. The rear lights and all blinkers work, just had to fiddle with some of the bulbs. No 12v coming through to the head light sockets at all. No full beam nor dipped. Wouldnt that suggest relay? I tried with another relay but that looked a bit more tired really so maybe that was dead too!

Any clue on how to get live wire straight to the fan? I'm not sure where it's positioned. Is it from under the dash or from the bulkhead under the wipers? I have the Hanyes book but it's bloody useless really.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:28 pm

Emery cloth is better than a needle file Henrik - less aggressive. There are two or three relays in the headlamp system, one is a changeover from dipped to main and back, second actually provides power for that one and the third (if fitted) is the dim-dip relay. If you have a fuse in position "V" in the underbonnet fusebox, chances are you have dim-dip.

Image

Image

That should give you a bit more of an idea, i know some things changed on very late cars (96 on) but aside from that, i'm fairly sure it stayed the same through the production run.

Don't forget the fusible links on the fusebox - they can break at the very ends and corrode as well. Note that the relays are colour coded, green are Changeover and yellow are simply Normally Open so aren't interchangeable and if someone has replaced one with the wrong type, certain things may not work.

Which fan are we talking about Henrik? Ventilation fan for the cabin (heating and cooling the inside) or the engine cooling fans?
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Manalishi
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:00 pm

Heating and cooling inside.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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