Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

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Fastback
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Fastback » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:21 am

A failing battery can cause all sorts of wieeerd problems. In the Sterling, a random rise on the temperature guage which lead to stalling. Some cause for concern before I realised (I was fearing HGF, KV6) but at least it gave the staff at Crap Fit the opportunity to further flog and mock the dead horse of Rover. But it was the battery and replacing it solved the issues.

Fingers crossed for you Henrick.
Last edited by Fastback on Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:10 am

It's a puzzle Henrik, did you have the charge warning light when you first turned the key to position 2 before starting?

Also worth checking the fuses, the alternator has 2 or 3 fused feeds to make it work, if any of those aren't present it won't charge and often won't show it's not charging. Could just be dirty fuses from being laid up of course or maybe the battery died because of the cold.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:42 am

Oh dear. It’s worse so need to check those fuses and advice you gave Dave. Tried it with a new battery and still dead.

I couldn’t do much there so need to tow it back home later today and start looking into it from there.

I’ll report back later.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:26 pm

When you say even with a new battery it was still dead, was it not even turning over?
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:52 pm

Not a single click Dave. Plus it wont start on the roll either But I haven’t been able to try more than once. I hope to be able to get it back home in an hour or two.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:00 pm

Very strange Henrik! I'll have a think and see what i come up with. Might be worth checking the fusible links in the underbonnet fusebox, corrosion on the ends and/or breaks in them can cause symptoms like you have.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:07 pm

Fastback wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:21 am
A failing battery can cause all sorts of wieeerd problems. In the Sterling, a random rise on the temperature guage which lead to stalling. Some cause for concern before I realised (I was fearing HGF, KV6) but at least it gave the staff at Crap Fit the opportunity to further flog and mock the dead horse of Rover. But it was the battery and replacing it solved the issues.

Fingers crossed for you Henrick.
Sorry Mark, missed your post. Thanks! I hope to find something once I get it back home. But unfortunately it wasnt as simple as a shot battery.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Manalishi
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:21 pm

So, finally got the car back home, and I've gathered some clues here.

The car started as normal! So I could drive it back home ithout any problem. Back home I turned it off and after that it wont start. So obviously there is some bad connections.

Let me describe it:
Turn the key to ignition. All lights and fan comes on as they should, turning the key to the starting position, everything dims down, fan stops and no click nothing. So the relay isn't kicking in at all.

The strange thing was I couldn't start it on the roll this morning. (Haven't tried now as I'm alone) but that gives me the clue that the ignition isn't on or the pgmfi-relay isnt even though everything lights up as it should. PGMFI light goes on and then off as it should. So is there a fuse running both the starter relay and ignition/fuel relay?

Next idea is the ignition key lock barrel. And I really suspect this! I had this problem once or twice last spring but it went away without coming back. I jiggled the key back then and it helped, not today.

So what do you think? Some major fuse with bad connections/oxide or the ignition lock barrel? Any ideas are welcome.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:35 pm

With those symptoms Henrik, i'd be looking at the ignition/starter switch on the end of the steering lock/ignition barrel. Fairly easy to change if you have a spare and i'm fairly sure the Mk1 and Mk2 used the same switch but would have to check. I may have a Mk2 switch somewhere, can't remember if i fitted it to my Coupe or not though.

The PGM-Fi relay doesn't share any fuses with the starter circuit and would give totally different symptoms if it was playing up.

I know the 827 SLi Mk2 i briefly owned had the same symptoms as yours and that was solved with a replacement ignition/starter switch - it's held on by 2 screws if memory serves.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Manalishi
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:50 am

scoobyh123 wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:35 pm
With those symptoms Henrik, i'd be looking at the ignition/starter switch on the end of the steering lock/ignition barrel. Fairly easy to change if you have a spare and i'm fairly sure the Mk1 and Mk2 used the same switch but would have to check. I may have a Mk2 switch somewhere, can't remember if i fitted it to my Coupe or not though.

The PGM-Fi relay doesn't share any fuses with the starter circuit and would give totally different symptoms if it was playing up.

I know the 827 SLi Mk2 i briefly owned had the same symptoms as yours and that was solved with a replacement ignition/starter switch - it's held on by 2 screws if memory serves.
Sounds very much true Dave. Unfortunately I don't have a spare one so please check in your shed. :wink:
Anyway of restoring it?
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:27 am

As far as i've been able to work out, the ignition switch on the 800 is a sealed unit so sadly not. I'll have a hunt later and see what i can find. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

mercedade
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by mercedade » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:36 am

I'd also be checking the physical connections on the terminals on the starter motor, plus the main gearbox earth connection.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:46 am

mercedade wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:36 am
I'd also be checking the physical connections on the terminals on the starter motor, plus the main gearbox earth connection.
Good point Adrian considering it died while it was being used. Also the alternator fuse in the underbonnet fuse box.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Manalishi
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:08 am

I’ve ruled out anything charging related. But the leads from/to starter including earth straps is a good tip.

Looking at these pics, What is the ignition switch and how Easy is it to remove? I haven’t really dug into it yet just making a visual check.

Looking at it I think that it's the black plastick thing where the wiring goes in, and it could be removed by removing the small screw?

Image

Image
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Austin Seven Special -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 DOHC coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

User avatar
scoobyh123
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:23 pm

Manalishi wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:08 am
What is the ignition switch and how Easy is it to remove?
Image

The ignition switch is outlined in green Henrik and there are two screws diametrically opposite, can only see one which i've circled in red, the other is opposite but undo the two screws and pull the switch out from the steering lock.

If you compare it to another switch in your fleet, you may find you can borrow one from another car - i still haven't found the one i think i've got, still looking though! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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