Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:44 am

The only common point to all 4 windows is fuse J in the underbonnet fusebox Henrik. Might pay to link that out and test them, also check the two window lift relays are sitting snugly in their sockets and maybe even pull them out, open them and check there's nothing untoward in them :

Image

One is next to the headlamp C/O relay, the other is further up the relay board and to the left.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:19 am

Update in previous post...
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:29 am

Manalishi wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:19 am
Update in previous post...
If you're getting no power feed to the door Henrik, it's one of the two relays in the rleay block as shown in the diagram above or it's fuse J - unless you've accidentally dislodged a plug that plugs into the relay board.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:07 pm

I’m starting to think there is some really dodgy wiring in the car. The alarm loom might affect the windows?

Nothing seems to be wrong. Relays are ok, wiring is from what I can tell still in place. There isn’t really any plugs going into the relay board, only a number of looms going in.

I’ll probably have to do some deeper search for the wiring colour codes going from the relays to the doors.

Bummer!
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:43 pm

Serious problem with the cars electric doesn’t stop me from putting on some fresh plugs and leads. At least it runs like a dream!


Image
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

User avatar
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:31 pm

Link to diagrams and advice sent by PM Henrik. Wish mine was running perfectly at the moment! :shock:
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:06 am

scoobyh123 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:31 pm
Link to diagrams and advice sent by PM Henrik. Wish mine was running perfectly at the moment! :shock:
Thanks Dave, spotted it. That gives me a good clue what to look for.

However, and it's just a note for reference. Looking at this schematic, it doesn't look like in my car. The relays aren't positioned in that way... I noticed that earlier when searching for the headlamp changeover relay (Tall black relay) but didn't give it much thought as that relay was obvious. The other special relays like the one for the courtesy light and rear screen heater isn't positioned like in the diagram. On the other hand, all relays are attached by a "slide-on" rails so someone could have altered their positioning at some stage.

Image

Image

Good luck on your Sterling! I hope you get it up and running again without any bruised knuckles! :D
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

User avatar
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:58 am

Manalishi wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:06 am


However, and it's just a note for reference. Looking at this schematic, it doesn't look like in my car. The relays aren't positioned in that way... I noticed that earlier when searching for the headlamp changeover relay (Tall black relay) but didn't give it much thought as that relay was obvious. The other special relays like the one for the courtesy light and rear screen heater isn't positioned like in the diagram. On the other hand, all relays are attached by a "slide-on" rails so someone could have altered their positioning at some stage.

Image

Image

Good luck on your Sterling! I hope you get it up and running again without any bruised knuckles! :D
That diagram is for the RHD version Henrik, the obvious thought would be that mirror image would apply to LHD cars but as you know, sometimes the obvious isn't always the obvious answer! Might be worth investigating as a possibility though.

A good clue when you're trying to identify a relay is to look at the relay socket/base and the wires going in to it.

To explain, the front window lift relay has :

Brown/Blue
Green/Yellow
Brown/Yellow
Black

while the rear window lift relay has :

Brown/Blue
Green/Yellow
Slate (S) or Grey as we commonly call it
Black

On both relays, the Brown/Blue should be going to terminal 30 on the relay and comes from fuse J, permanent feed.

The Green/Yellow is the control feed (switches the relay on) going to terminal 86 and comes from fuse 16 via the ignition switch accessory position (position 1), switched feed.

Brown/Yellow and Slate are the outputs on terminal 87 and feed the relays in the doors for window up/down.

Black is terminal 85 and is the 0V connection to the relay coil.

Once you've identified the two relays either by wire colour codes or labels on the relays, you can more or less ignore the other relays. Fairly sure you have a multimeter so get it on the 20V setting and put the probes into one of the relays with the red going to the Green/Yellow and the black probe onto the Black connection and turn the key to position 1 and you should see battery voltage on both Green/Yellow terminals and both relays should click as they are operated.

Now move the red probe to the output terminals in turn and perform the same with the ignition switch, again you should get battery voltage in position 1 of the key.

If any of those tests aren't as specified then we know where the problem lies.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:54 pm

Excellent guide on the colours there Dave, many Thanks!
Not a bad idea of the relays being mirrored but I don’t think the answer is that simple. Some of them are just not right.

I’ve been tied up today and might be for tomorrow too but Now I have the colours for future reference.

At least something positive comes out of this misery, I can remove the hidden relay plate in less than 5min now. :D Only downside is I have to remove the seat first which take a bit longer. But on the other hand, I’ve trained Marcus into doing this so I don’t have to. :lol:
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

User avatar
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:30 pm

Hopefully you can make some progress on it now Henrik!

Had a look at my charging problem today and it looks very much like the alternator, spificially the voltage regulator. It's a relatively new unit but out of guarantee - i say new but it was remanufactured aka reconditioned. As many others have found, voltage regulators on recon Nippon-Denso alternators sometimes have a short life. I have the old alternator still (plus i think a spare) so am hoping i can sort something out, even if it only proves the alternator is faulty. The other option is the fuel ECU but i don't even want to think about that!
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

User avatar
Manalishi
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:40 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:30 pm
Hopefully you can make some progress on it now Henrik!

Had a look at my charging problem today and it looks very much like the alternator, spificially the voltage regulator. It's a relatively new unit but out of guarantee - i say new but it was remanufactured aka reconditioned. As many others have found, voltage regulators on recon Nippon-Denso alternators sometimes have a short life. I have the old alternator still (plus i think a spare) so am hoping i can sort something out, even if it only proves the alternator is faulty. The other option is the fuel ECU but i don't even want to think about that!
Yes. I need to put it some on hold as other stuff is needed to be done but I made a little ”Hot wiring” mod that made it possible to roll down at least one window.

Good on the Sterling! I’ve never heard of fuel ECUs giving up so surely the alternator. :)
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

User avatar
scoobyh123
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Posts: 10871
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:27 pm
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:37 pm

Good news you've done a work-around, where did you connect in to the system?

As for the fuel ECUs, i have a faulty one in the shed (won't recognise the Crank Position Snensor) and have known of a few others that have died.

My gut feeling is that the ECU is ok and it's the alternator, hopefully once i fight my way into the little shed i can get to the spare alternator(s) and at least one will work!
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

User avatar
Manalishi
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Posts: 2159
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Location: Stockholm/Sweden
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:51 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:37 pm
Good news you've done a work-around, where did you connect in to the system?

As for the fuel ECUs, i have a faulty one in the shed (won't recognise the Crank Position Snensor) and have known of a few others that have died.

My gut feeling is that the ECU is ok and it's the alternator, hopefully once i fight my way into the little shed i can get to the spare alternator(s) and at least one will work!
No, it’s just a haxx. ;) I wired up the motor In the passenger door directly via a fused manual switch just to be able to get a gap on the window. We have some serious heat coming in so needed.

Still waiting for my new heater control panel so heater fan is set to coldest possible with full blast on the fan! :D

Hopefully you’ll find some time tomorrow to dig out the spares you need to get the alternator up and running. Fingers crossed!
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

User avatar
scoobyh123
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Posts: 10871
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:27 pm
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:11 pm

Allegedly it's going to finally get warm here as well tomorrow. Good time for resticking loose dashboard tops! (Dash lift)

I looked in my shed this evening to see if i could get the alternator(s) from the old filing cabinet they're lurking in on to find two Silver-Green Volvo 760 wings and a load of other stuff in the way! Tomorrow i'll (hopefully) feel more like shifting it all.

Changing the alternator on an 827 is a back-breaking job, it's just the wrong height. It's also fiddly because of the belt adjuster - have to see what i can find in the morning first! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

User avatar
Manalishi
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Posts: 2159
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Re: Manalishis Mk 1a 827 Vitesse (manual)

Post by Manalishi » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:55 pm

Look what I got in the mail yesterday. Almost five weeks to cross the Atlantic Ocean but hopefully it will be worth it.

My old knobs were broken off and buttons didn’t stay pressed. Can’t tell if it’s fully working yet but at least the buttons stay in when pressed.

The Wood is for the front doors, Mine are not totally bad but not good enough. A funny detail that might make them hard to fit: these are from a Sterling and they are too long! As they seems to be solid my plan is to cut them about 10mm and gently sand the edge.

But why is this even a problem? Did Rover change the insides of the doors? These trims are from a 1990 mk1.


Image
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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