Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:05 pm

Well, it's been a significantly longer journey than I'd hoped but, with all fingers crossed, I'm confident I can say...

It's fixed.

In short, the head was scrap. It had overheated to such a degree that the valve seats and guides 'shifted', so although the skimming got it flat again, it was junk.

So, after finding a complete s 2.0 (non turbo) engine for relatively cheap, I split the head and block, new gaskets, and fired it up for the first time today.

Haven't driven it anywhere yet - just got it warm - but it was a nice feeling.

I'll add more soon, including some pics along the way, but suffice to say I'm pretty happy.

Most pressing issue to resolve is why the exhaust manifold is currently not seating correctly against the head - it's running happily, but is making a proper racket.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:18 pm

Glad to hear it's running again Adrian! I assume you've fitted a new exhaust gasket?

The other thought is if the head got so hot it caused the valve seats and gides to move, it was probably banana shaped in more than one plane. With that amount of heat, it's possible it has bent the exhaust manifold, or possibly cracked it.

Try soaking the manifold studs with ATF (it'll pong a bit as it warms up thogh!) and have your ratchet ready with the right socket on. Tighten the nuts on the manifold to a reasonable level (not completely tight yet, just almost there) and start the engine and as it warms up, tighten the ones where it makes most noise then nip the others up in between.

Keep doing this until it's up to normal temperature then slacken each in turn starting from the middle by 1/4 turn then retighten a bit tighter, working your way outwards from the middle and alternating side to side, a bit like doing a head gasket.

That should hopefully get it gas-tight and quiet! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:07 am

It's had a new *everything* gasket!

The actual answer was far more embarrassing than that.

When I changed the exhaust studs, I put the washers on for safe keeping. And then I left one of them behind when I put the new exhaust gasket on. So I was trying to tighten the manifold against one washer...

New gasket arriving today
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:12 am

It's had:

Headgasket and headbolts (obviously)
Cam cover gaskets
Cam shaft oil seals
Cam shaft end caps
Exhaust gasket (now x2 in the last week alone)
Inlet gasket
Inlet plenum gasket
Thermostat gasket
Turbo oil feed gaskets
Sump gasket (has been weeping for a while I think)
Turbo actuator diaphragm
Cam belt (can't be sure how hot the last one got)

And a lot of those, it's now had THREE of in the last 16 months....
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:34 am

mercedade wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:07 am
It's had a new *everything* gasket!

The actual answer was far more embarrassing than that.

When I changed the exhaust studs, I put the washers on for safe keeping. And then I left one of them behind when I put the new exhaust gasket on. So I was trying to tighten the manifold against one washer...

New gasket arriving today
Oops! :oops: Glad you found the problem anyway! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Fastback
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by Fastback » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:23 pm

What a battle but well done.
Always very satisfying getting to the end (hopefully) of a problem. I haven't had much time (or money, or knowledge) to work on my Vitesse Lux as the Sterling interior is stripped out trying to find a water leak but have had one or two of my own fights as well. I would really like to work on the head, very rattly, and there have been many a useful pointer here and previously.
Mark
'99 Sterling KV6 Fastback :D
'96 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto :?
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:18 pm

Fastback wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:23 pm
I would really like to work on the head, very rattly, and there have been many a useful pointer here and previously.
Try adding some ATF, preferably synthetic ATF to the engine oil Mark, about 0.5L should do it to quieten down noisy tappets. It also helps clean the engine internally and revive oil seals that are weepy. I use Carlube ATF-U as i know it does all of the above, since i've been using it in both my Sterling and Volvo, the emissions have improved considerably on both as has performance and economy (more on the Sterling because the Volvo has solid tappets) but both engines are quieter, more responsive and don't drop oil.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Fastback
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by Fastback » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:07 pm

I was just about to top up the oil anyway, so I'll give that a go.
Mark
'99 Sterling KV6 Fastback :D
'96 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto :?
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:38 pm

Fastback wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:07 pm
I was just about to top up the oil anyway, so I'll give that a go.
Let me know how it goes! I've just done an oil/filter change on my Volvo, 5L of 10W40 semi-synth went in on top of 550ml of ATF-U, need to add about another 3-400ml of 10W40 (it takes 6L usually) once i've done similar with my Sterling. That will get 500ml of ATF-U followed by 4L of 10W40 and it should be right, i'll use the remaining litre to top up the Volvo and also do an oil change on my lawnmower. Even that gets a dose of ATF-U as well! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:53 pm

Fastback wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:23 pm
What a battle but well done.
Always very satisfying getting to the end (hopefully) of a problem. I haven't had much time (or money, or knowledge) to work on my Vitesse Lux as the Sterling interior is stripped out trying to find a water leak but have had one or two of my own fights as well. I would really like to work on the head, very rattly, and there have been many a useful pointer here and previously.
Thanks Mark - you're right, it has been a fairly hefty battle, but took it for its first drive today (just a quick rattle round the private lane here). And it seems OK - thankfully.

The only thing I'm not confident on now is the radiator fan - I couldn't get it to come on, no matter how long it idled for. I'm even sure I saw the temp gauge ever so fractionally move from the normal 8 o'clock position. The fan works with 12v direct, so need to have a bit of a think on that.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Fastback
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by Fastback » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:07 pm

I had a similar problem with mine when I first got it. The previous owner had wired in a complete separate circuit with a switch. Well done, but not right. After enquiring on here, it turns out it was the relay which had corroded, being close the front of the vehicle, and just needed replacing. Have a look there first.
Mark
'99 Sterling KV6 Fastback :D
'96 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto :?
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:04 pm

Aha! Really helpful, thanks. Will have a look later this week
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:22 pm

It's a common problem on the later (Mk2b) Vitesse models. The cooling fan is controlled by the fuel ECU, not a switch in the radiator. The ECU control doesn't always work sadly!

There are many ways round it, each to their own on which way they want to do it but i would go for an alloy coolant sensor adaptor with a switch in the top hose and a relay to bring the fan in.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:27 pm

OK, have taken the relay out and had a look.

Applying 12 volts, get a nice solid click out of it.


Image

Image

Image

Does everything look like it should?
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:00 pm

If you plug it back in and operate it with your hand, does the fan run Adrian?

If sothen it's down to the control side of things - you've proved the relay operation with what you've done, doing what i'm suggesting will prove the electrical side so all that's left then is the control side.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


Image
'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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