Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

[mercedade]

Unfortunately, there's a void where you'd need to drill a new hole

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID005017

And there's no way to get the Land Rover unit fitted without compressing the tensioner spring, and the amount of deflection, even in a shorter belt, would still drop back on top of the air con compressor.

It might just - just - be possible to fit it without a air-con, using a belt of an unknown length, but that's getting bodgier and bodgier...

[mercedade]

Ughh! So close.

I'm guessing it is niether possible nor desirable to either remove and manufacture a new lug (alloy housing?) nor replace the rear element?

I don't know if someone with greater engineering skills than mine could open the casting and maybe drill a new locating lug.

The rear element requires a new spring on mine (I assume that's all that is housed in the tensioner end, but I actually don't know!).

I guess one thing I could do is take apart the new one to learn how easy it might be to replace the spring in the old unit, but that feels fraught with all kinds of danger

[Richard Moss]

Now....is the original tensioner knackered or is it a seized bearing in the pulley that is the problem (jamming and making the whole tensioner bounce)?

If it's the latter, you should be able to swap the pulleys over

AliBaba shows a picture of the tensioner's insides, too
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 73917.html

[mercedade]

Richard - that's a bloody good question! Especially pertinent, because when I gloomily brought the car down off the ramps, the banging had partially diminished, and I can't imagine a circumstance where the spring could be somehow re-tensioned, whereas I definitely CAN imagine that a pulley can be intermittently sticking.

Will report back. Thank you.

[mercedade]

Not been able to find any issue with the tensioner pulley as yet, but what do we think about the play in the power steering pump?

No lateral movement in the pulley whatsoever, and there's resistance when turning by hand (as you'd expect, what with it being a pump!)

[scoobyh123]

Just to clarify Adrian, is that just a bit of rotational play in the pump? If so i wouldn't be too worried, many PAS pumps i've known have a bit of backwards/forwars play with no problems.

Unless of course it's making a noise like a banshee in which case worry!

[mercedade]

Yes Dave, exactly that. Ok, good news at least. And no, no noise.

Next thing to do is probably swap the pulley over from my new one on to the old tensioner body and see what happens..

[scoobyh123]

Good luck swapping the pulleys over! Not something i'd like to try because i think they have a seriously strong spring that could do some serious damage if it made a bid for freedom!

[mercedade]

I mean the un-sprung pulley! Hoping it can be swapped over, bearing and all.

[mercedade]

Interestingly, I've discovered another issue whilst the car sits with no alternator belt on. It looks to me like I've got the wrong pulley on the alternator. It's only got 4 ribs, where as everything else has 5

[mercedade]

Rimmers list two different pulleys for the T series:

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-PQR10065

and

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-PQR10054

I wonder if the final digit of the part number indicates the number of ribs, and that I've got the non-air con alternator pulley.

[scoobyh123]

Interestingly, I've discovered another issue whilst the car sits with no alternator belt on. It looks to me like I've got the wrong pulley on the alternator. It's only got 4 ribs, where as everything else has 5

Hmmm, the pulleys might have 4 and 5 ribs but it means they will have a 5 and 6 rib belt respectively - how many ribs does your belt have? If it's 6, it won't sit right in the alernator pulley and will jump in and out of it, run twisted and cause varying tension in the belt. I can say this with a fair degree of certainty as i have a poly-v (ribbed) drive belt on my lathe but with flat pulleys - the original was a leather belt back in 1943!
The drive pulley has a tendency to become loose on the shaft it sits on (a motor sits under the shaft and drives it through a reduction pulley set) so it slides up and down the shaft, creating varying tensions in the belt. Because both drive and driven pulleys are stepped, this has on occasion resulted in the largest pulley on the drive end driving the middle (instead of the smallest) pulley on the driven side. I've actually got a T series timing belt tensioner G-clamped to the framework as i normally only use the largest drive and smallest driven pulley and my belt is a bit on the large side. I've known this to move when the belt twists and gets skew-whiff from the drive pulley moving.

Reverse this and put a pulley not wide enough and it will start derailing things. You could change to a 5 rib from your 6 rib and that should solve the problem but might slip under high loads - A/C running, charging heavily and turning while maneouvring.

Rimmers list two different pulleys for the T series:

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-PQR10065

and

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-PQR10054

I wonder if the final digit of the part number indicates the number of ribs, and that I've got the non-air con alternator pulley.

The first one definitely has 5 ribs (so would need a 6-rib belt) and appears to be for A/C cars, the other is non-A/C, looking at the genuine belts, i'm right about the 5 and 6 ribs on them :

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-PQS10045EVA
6-rib A/C belt ^^^^^

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-PQS101590P
5-rib non A/C belt ^^^^^

I'm guessing you have A/C so would need to order the pulley, at least it's relatively cheap at £6 but i daresay Rimmers will charge painfully for P&P as usual.

You'll need (if memory serves) a 22mm cranked ring spanner and an 8mm Allen key or socket drive bit to fit it - the Allen key goes in the centre of the shaft to counterhold it while the nut holding the pulley is unscrewed conventionally. The nut is FT on the shaft, it has to be to hold the pulley while transmitting about a horsepower of energy! Might be more, i can't remember the output of the alternators now but 55A @14V is just over 1hp (770W) so gives you an idea!

If you do order the pulley, would you do me a huge favour please and measure the diameter of it please? It looks like it might be ideal for a project i'm working on, i am likely to need two identical pulleys and they're a sensible enough price to buy two instead of the other option i'm looking at. Thanks!

[mercedade]

I've already ordered the 'correct' pulley, despite how much Rimmers' approach to p+p winds me up.

I've been running the correct 6 rib belt on it for the entire time I've owned it, perpetually wondering why it was shredding belts roughly once a year. I had even been able to see that belts weren't sitting square on the alternator, but was faffing around checking out alignment rather than thinking of something obvious.

Will be interesting to see how 'easy' it is to get the alternator pulley off. I remember refurbing the one on the green Vitesse and it being an absolute nightmare.

[scoobyh123]

I've already ordered the 'correct' pulley, despite how much Rimmers' approach to p+p winds me up.

I've been running the correct 6 rib belt on it for the entire time I've owned it, perpetually wondering why it was shredding belts roughly once a year. I had even been able to see that belts weren't sitting square on the alternator, but was faffing around checking out alignment rather than thinking of something obvious.

Will be interesting to see how 'easy' it is to get the alternator pulley off. I remember refurbing the one on the green Vitesse and it being an absolute nightmare.

Sometimes the blindingly obvious is exactly that and because the alternator was already on there (presumably changed by a previous owner) and they couldn't keep a belt on it either they moved the car on. Subsequent owners have just put up with a shredded belt annually until you got to the root cause.

I can't remember the geography of the T series engine and where the alternator is on it but if there is reasonable access, i'd suggest leaving the alternator in place. If the belt is still on it, i'd use the 22mm cranked ring spanner on the nut, pull it to get some anticlockwise tension with the spanner then give it a clout with a hammer to help shock it free. If you're lucky, this will release the locknut. If not, 8mm Allen key (or socket drive bit in the centre) and either wedge that so it can't move and repeat the anticlockwise tap on the spanner or wedge the spanner and tap the Allen key clockwise.

Once it's loose, take the nut off by hand, there are usually distance pieces behind and in front of the pulley, count them off carefully and methodically as they are used to set the right distance from the pulley to the alternator and from that, the alignment of the belt.

As the saying goes, to fit the new one, Haynes it! There's no keyway on it so it has to be tight, you know how tight!

[Fastback]

I seem to remember some difficulty/confusion when doing the belt/alternator on my Vitesse Lux.

Yes, the main difference at the time was the 'Lux' variant having climate control and standard just ordinary blowers. I have just checked mine again and the belt is 6 ribbed with five ribs on all wheels including alternator. Perhaps that helps.