Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed May 06, 2020 12:18 pm

SJG wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:55 am
Don't you need a cts to make the fans come on?
Not when he's modifying it this way Simon because that part of the ECU no longer works! Common problem on the Vitesse it seems! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by SJG » Wed May 06, 2020 12:30 pm

Oh I see, so this for the independent switch?
Rover Vitesse Coupe - 1997

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed May 06, 2020 1:05 pm

SJG wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 12:30 pm
Oh I see, so this for the independent switch?
It is, yes. The car was owned by James (nitro something, can't fully recall his screen name just now) and the cooling fan wasn't working, causing HGF so he retro fitted a "tradional" thermoswitch in the radiator or a manual switch, not sure now as it's a while back.

Adrian is now revisiting this job as the thermoswitch appears to be rated at too high a temperature or is defective, unclear which.

The relay has been proven (again) to be ok so it's all down to the switch in the rad it seems.
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Wed May 06, 2020 7:25 pm

Almost! (and not that it's important to be honest, but it's nice to get them straight in my own head).

When James took the car on, it had HGF. It had been parked up with rotten core plugs, amongst other things. James then did a substantial amount of work to get it up and running again, only it seems the head he re-used was either not flat or (more likely) mis-seated valves caused by a warped head. It was always tougher to start when hot for the first 4 months I had it, but I put it down to possibly a defective CTS. At that point, the cooling fan still worked! James replaced the bearing in it.

Then, Christmas 2018, another HGF. This new failure was caused by the spindle on the back of the powersteering pump (that drives the water pump) separating from the shaft, so the water pump stopped circulating water.

When it was all put back together, it ran like a pig. At that point, the warped valve seats was diagnosed (actually, it never was diagnosed) so I replaced the head gasket AGAIN , this time changing the head with one from a NA 820, swapping the cam pulleys.

Since then, the cooling fan doesn't work (after testing, assumed to be the ECU), so I'm wiring in a radiator switch as Dave says. To top it all off, I can also hear that the new bearing has failed in the fan.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Mon May 11, 2020 5:51 pm

Does anyone have a clutch pedal in a stash of bits?

I need to do this, but would rather have a spare to hand and straight swap over, rather than immobilise the car for longer than intended...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Rover80 ... 1605833196
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by Manalishi » Mon May 11, 2020 8:50 pm

I’d say you can do that in an hour. I got a new clevis pin from the hardware store, (8mm IIRC) took the pedal out and drilled the hole and pressed a bush into it. Very straight forward.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Tue May 12, 2020 10:06 am

The only problem I have is knowing what steel bush to get before hand!
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by Manalishi » Tue May 12, 2020 11:21 am

I must admit I don’t remember what I used but I think it was some steel tube of the correct inner diameter that I cut.

My Master plan is to never throw anything away in the garage. I have loads of stashed special bolts and nuts and bits and bobs that I have gotten my hands on over the years. I keep them in various drawers and boxes following my own very special and unique catalogizing method. (Total chaos) And when I need something special I know it’s there somewhere. :lol:

But to be fair, the pivot pin was very easy to swap. The bush means pedal out but it wasn’t as hard as I imagined. Now, the pedal is 1000times better!
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Wed May 13, 2020 7:57 am

Thanks Henrik - I honestly think it'll be one of those tiny-but-huge changes I make to this car! I can't wait to drive something with a proper feeling clutch again.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed May 13, 2020 8:25 am

mercedade wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:06 am
The only problem I have is knowing what steel bush to get before hand!
I'd go for a phosphor bronze bush Adrian, soak it in oil overnight before fitting. Plain or flanged should do the job :

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Produ ... index.html

If you go for the flanged one, a plain bronze washer on the side opposite the flange would help as well.
Cheers,
Dave


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'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Wed May 13, 2020 9:01 am

Hi Dave - thanks for the link. Any reason for choosing bronze over a standard split steel bush?
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed May 13, 2020 10:07 am

mercedade wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:01 am
Hi Dave - thanks for the link. Any reason for choosing bronze over a standard split steel bush?
There is indeed Adrian - consider what you currently have.

1. A worn fulcrum pin that goes through the pedal box and clutch pedal.

2. A clutch pedal that started life with a round hole but now likely has an oval hole with the extra wear at the back end of the oval - the front of the oval is probably the original hole.

The reason being they are similar metals, both steel so a similar hardness and the one that moves the most will show the most wear, in this case the clutch pedal.

If you have a pillar drill, you can line a drill bit up with the original hole (10mm rings a bell for the size of the fulcrum pin) then clamp the pedal in position. You can then change the drill bit for a larger one to suit the size of the bush. With luck, this should overlap the worn area meaning any wear is eliminated by the bush.

As Phosphor Bronze is softer (slightly) than steel, the bush will be "sacrificial" but when it wears, can easily be changed for a new one with little or no wear on the fulcrum pin and no further damage to the pedal.

For the cost of the bushes and maybe plain washers as well, it makes sense to make it this way so you don't have to keep trying to repair the clutch pedal.

Also the bronze bushes are used for many bearing surfaces so will give a smoother feel than steel. A split steel bush is also likely to have burrs which would increase the initial wear rte on the pin and chances are, would be noisy and a bit stiff in operation too.

Bit long but any shorter and it would have been too short - "It's better" would have been too short IMHO! :P :wink: :lol: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by Manalishi » Wed May 13, 2020 4:54 pm

I believe the pin was 8mm but I might very well be wrong there. I tried to find it in my systematically organized filing system (the boxes and drawers) but it appears to have been archived... (Binned!)

Daves Idea of the bronze Bush is the best.

I discovered that the pin needs to be the same lenght + maybe a mm or two but not longer than that or it will fowl.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Thu May 14, 2020 8:23 am

Thanks Dave, appreciate your insight.

Interesting theory - I have to say, I'd rather there was a way of making the pin sacrificial, rather than a bush that involves removing a spring-loaded pedal with inaccessible mounting bolts. This is definitely a job I only want to do once.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu May 14, 2020 9:55 am

mercedade wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:23 am
Thanks Dave, appreciate your insight.

Interesting theory - I have to say, I'd rather there was a way of making the pin sacrificial, rather than a bush that involves removing a spring-loaded pedal with inaccessible mounting bolts. This is definitely a job I only want to do once.
Although the phosphor bronze will wear Adrian, it's going to take another 20 years or so and at least then, it's just a case of renewing the bush, not repairing the clutch pedal first.

The fatal flaw in your idea of making the pin sacrificial is along the same lines as making the through-bolt for your lower front control arms sacrificial without a bush in the lower arm. When it wore out the bolt would just snap leaving the wheel dangling in the breeze - or not! :shock:
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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