Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:10 pm

Will definitely check fuel lines and any relevant connection to fuel pressure items. CTS is brand new from Best of British and is triggering the fans perfectly.

The bit that's bothering in me is drawing the connection between poor compression, massive overfuelling and yet totally reasonable (if underpowered) behaviour once moving at speed.

Worth looking at everything fuel related in the engine bay though, cheers
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:07 pm

FPR was totally gummed up - has now been freed off and fuelling appears to be improving. However, the warmer it gets, the worse it gets - and it's still ridiculously hard to start.

ECU reset each time.

Also discovered the turbo diaphragm is split - probably due to yet more intense heat.

Lambda sensor replaced which has also improved things in the process of getting warm.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:31 pm

It might pay to renew the FPR Adrian, not sure how much they are for your beastie though.

The turbo diaphragm will help once it's replaced too i should think.
Cheers,
Dave


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820Vitesse
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by 820Vitesse » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:58 pm

This is a good picture for cam timing clearly shows the roll pins position and alignment marks for inlet and exhaust cams. It is worth using the right timing pin for crank position too, should be cheap enough.

Image

So many things could cause the problems your having.
If you have access to a cylinder leakage tester or someone that can carry out the test for you it will tell you exactly where the pressure loss is.

Very difficult to diagnose without the car in front of you but keep us posted

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by Richard Moss » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:12 am

If the head has been skimmed, I wonder if it has been reassembled with the valve clearances too tight - leading to the valves not closing properly, leading to low compression. Low compression = less oxygen in the cylinder but if the injectors are still squirting in the normal amount of fuel, this could lead to excess fueling and plug fouling.

I have no idea if this could be the case, just trying to put 2 and 2 together
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:28 am

A valid theory Rich but it has hydraulic tappets - gives me an idea though along similar lines. If the tappets weren't stored in oil, it's possible they all bled down and are struggling to refill. This won't necessarily make them noisy but could restrict the amount they actually open the valves, resulting in lack of compression and the rest of your theory then comes into play.

As i suggested in an earlier post, this could result in fuel wash reducing the sealing effect of the rings in the bores, hence reducing the available compression further.

I also wonder what oil they filled the sump with, too thin and it'll struggle to get the pressure in the tappets, too thick and it'll struggle to fill them in the first place.
Cheers,
Dave


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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:53 pm

Before the timing was reset

Image

And after

Image
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:09 pm

Cylinder 1

Image

Cylinder 2

Image

Cylinder 3

Image

Cylinder 4

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Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:15 pm

These plugs had already been cleaned after the 200 mile journey back, but have been through some heavy duty starting attempts since

Image
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:20 pm

820Vitesse wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:58 pm

If you have access to a cylinder leakage tester or someone that can carry out the test for you it will tell you exactly where the pressure loss is.
Must admit, I'd never heard of this kit. I am already watching YouTube videos on how it works and have sent the first few texts to likely helpers. Excellent prompt, thanks
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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scoobyh123
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:44 pm

I'd get a boroscope Adrian and an independent garage. I'm suspecting bent valves from the engine being mistimed.
You mentioned a while back that adding oil to the pistons didn't improve the compression readings - if the valves are bent or the head gasket or some other part has failed again then it won't.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:47 pm

Richard Moss wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:12 am
If the head has been skimmed, I wonder if it has been reassembled with the valve clearances too tight - leading to the valves not closing properly, leading to low compression. Low compression = less oxygen in the cylinder but if the injectors are still squirting in the normal amount of fuel, this could lead to excess fueling and plug fouling.

I have no idea if this could be the case, just trying to put 2 and 2 together
I also wondered about the valves - from observation (although sadly not mine, just from the lad who's helping me out now it's back with me) they are all moving freely with the cams, but obviously I've got no idea what's happening on the business end.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:51 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:28 am

I also wonder what oil they filled the sump with, too thin and it'll struggle to get the pressure in the tappets, too thick and it'll struggle to fill them in the first place.
Engine oil was 10w/40 which is all I've ever used in any of my Vitesses.

Not going to to rule anything out though - the oil's gonna need changing anyway, there's probably so much fuel in it by now.

How can I confirm the tappets are doing as necessary?
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:54 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:44 pm
I'd get a boroscope Adrian and an independent garage. I'm suspecting bent valves from the engine being mistimed.
You mentioned a while back that adding oil to the pistons didn't improve the compression readings - if the valves are bent or the head gasket or some other part has failed again then it won't.
Hopefully as you've seen above, the engine was never mis-timed. Just goes to show the unreliability of trying to do these things by eye I guess.

And the total absence of blue smoke is for me a good indicator that the trouble is with the head - somehow.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:05 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:44 pm
I'd get a boroscope Adrian and an independent garage. I'm suspecting bent valves from the engine being mistimed.
You mentioned a while back that adding oil to the pistons didn't improve the compression readings - if the valves are bent or the head gasket or some other part has failed again then it won't.
Have just splurged a whole £5.80 on an ebay spesh boroscope. Figured it can't do any harm, especially having looked at some online video examples.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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