Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

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scoobyh123
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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue May 21, 2019 9:37 am

scotty2 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:46 am
The sliding caliper set up is something I have worked on before at least very similar.
Critical steps are:
Do not have the handbrake on.
Follow manual as in: Unbolt caliper retaining bolts, withdraw caliper, remove old pads, clean, open bleed with a length of plastic pipe on it, wind in pistons clockwise and line up one of the grooves with the pip on the newly fitted pads.
Close bleed, replace caliper ensuring the pip locates in the groove, replace retaining bolts.
Start engine and pump brakes until the pistons have taken up the slack. Check rotation of hubs with brakes on and off to ensure free play when off.
Refit road wheels and check handbrake operation.
Lower car back on the road and torque up wheel nuts.

There - Did I pass ? ;-)
Errrrr...........................no. Almost but not quite.

Before starting, remove handbrake trim (two screws visible when the arm rest cubby lid is lifted) and slide it up the handbrake lever to remove.
Release handbrake and then slacken handbrake adjuster so there is a lot of free play in the cable.

Then follow your procedure, tightening and adjusting the handbrake cable just before refitting the wheels etc. On yours, being a later car with a long travel to the first notch/click on the handbrake lever, it's 3-5 clicks to be fully on, on my 94 Sterling, it doesn't have the "empty" area on the ratchet so it's 5-7 clicks to be fully on.

This ensures the auto-adjusters have the necessary room to move properly to make sure they continue to work. An early sign of seized/seizing caliper is the pads only contacting the disc in the centre of their area leaving a bright ring on the disc where they contact and the outer and inner areas of where they should contact not being touched.

If you remove fuse "S" from the underbonnet fusebox for 30s it will reset the ABS fault codes and also the engine ECU. As it's a MEMS ECU, it will take anything up to 200 miles to relearn/tune the idle andsome running trims but it's better than the other method of switching the ignition on/off 20+ times with the diagnostic link connected to the brake pedal switch!

Image

The friction fighter/seal conditioner will do the same job as the ATF-U but may not help clean the engine and is probably more expensive - should quieten the tappets as well i hope! The ATF-U will definitely do that. :wink: :D

Purely as a precaution, i'd slacken the handbrake adjuster, hit the brakes a few times to get the extra few clicks on the adjusters then adjust the handbrake cable. You may get several clicks on each calipers auto-adjuster, only 1 or 2 or maybe even none at all but at least you will know everything is as it should be and you've taken all reasonable precautions against caliper failure or uselss service brakes. Oddly the handbrake is often better when it's incorrectly adjusted but to get both the handbrake and service brakes to work properly, you need to do the handbrake cable slackening etc.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

scotty2
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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scotty2 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:11 pm

Aw so close but no cigar!
The handbrake is fine but as you suggest, I'll carry out the slackening procedure to finish the job off. There is more travel on TGM than TB2 so it may make them the same.

OK, Tips on getting both clutches to feel the same? TB2 is spot on for bite, travel and feel. TGM has had a new master cylinder and has been bled in various ways but still feels like there is a bit of air in there. Just feels too light and bit of travel before it engages. Suggestions please...

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:26 pm

If memory serves, it also had a new slave cylinder a few years ago when the gearbox was "updated" and i seem to recall the owner then saying it felt strange - but had done before he fitted the new slave cylinder.

However, something that has come to light in between whiles is that the pedal tends to wear. Instead of a round hole, it becomes oval where the clevis pin that connects it to the yoke on the end of the master cylinder pushrod goes through the pedal.

This gives extra movement on the pedal before it moves the pushrod. Perhaps worth looking at?

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID004941

If you look at item 2 on this pretty picture, that's the clutch pedal return spring. Slightly above that is the yoke and clevis pin connected to the pushrod. Where the clevis pin goes through the pedal is where it wears.

Some have removed the pedal and welded the worn bit of the hole then redrilled to get the right size for the pin, others have adjusted the pushrod and i can't think of other "fixes" just now.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scotty2 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:45 pm

When we changed the master cylinder we had to rub down the clevis pin with emery as the new cylinder bore on the push rod was ever so slightly smaller, so I can eliminate that. It's not "bad" just a bit different. I'll try a vacuum on the slave next time I can get it on the ramp just to eliminate that and re-bleed.

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue May 21, 2019 2:45 pm

scotty2 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:45 pm
When we changed the master cylinder we had to rub down the clevis pin with emery as the new cylinder bore on the push rod was ever so slightly smaller, so I can eliminate that.
Rubbing down the clevis pin would make it worse if my theory is correct - i'm on about the hole in the pedal arm that the clievis pin goes through, NOT the hole in the yoke. Have a look at Pg12 of this thread, if i've done it right, it should land on that page. About halfway down you should see this :

Image

http://www.rover800.info/forum/viewtopi ... &start=165

As you can see, the hole in the pedal is larger and a stranger shape than it should be! :shock:

The yoke is fine but the pedal has been "rebored" by a lunatic with an oval drill! :shock:

That's what i think your problem is - it will prevent the full stroke of the master cylinder so won't bleed properly. Also heard from some people that it's better to remove the slave cylinder so the bleed nipple can be put uppermost during bleeding. A strong cable tie round the pushrod from the slave cylinder should prevent accidental ejection. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scotty2 » Tue May 21, 2019 3:55 pm

Accidental Ejection - Yes to be avoided according to my missus Ooh Err!
I will have a look at the next playtime!

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue May 21, 2019 6:27 pm

scotty2 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:55 pm
Accidental Ejection - Yes to be avoided according to my missus Ooh Err!
I will have a look at the next playtime!
Definite oooooooooooo-errrrrrr missus! :lol:
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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CHR15E
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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by CHR15E » Tue May 21, 2019 6:28 pm

I always hated bleeding clutches on 800s.

I tried all the proper ways, the best results I had were always repeated fast pumping of the pedal and locking off the bleed nipple when I thought I'd seen the last of the air. Lots of wasted fluid but always better pressure/feel than the proper ways IMO.
Chris
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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by mercedade » Wed May 22, 2019 7:35 am

CHR15E wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:28 pm
I always hated bleeding clutches on 800s.
Glad it's not just me.

Infuriating.
Adrian
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Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed May 22, 2019 8:50 am

I knew there was another reason i run autos! :wink: :lol: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scotty2 » Wed May 22, 2019 1:55 pm

When I'm doing clutch bleeding, when the fluid is clean I run my pipe back to the reservoir so I can pump all day (Fnarr Fnarr) to ensure all air is out. As it's shared on the 800 I only do this when I am sure the fluid is fresh.

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed May 22, 2019 4:12 pm

scotty2 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:55 pm
When I'm doing clutch bleeding, when the fluid is clean I run my pipe back to the reservoir so I can pump all day (Fnarr Fnarr) to ensure all air is out. As it's shared on the 800 I only do this when I am sure the fluid is fresh.
That's what i did last time i changed the fluid on the brakes and had grief getting them bled. Took a long length of pipe to get from the backs to the master cylinder though! :shock:
It had about 5L of fresh fluid through it by then so it was definitely clean! Also no clutch to worry about! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by Manalishi » Sat May 25, 2019 4:18 pm

Just spotted this. I removed the pedal and drilled the hole and pressed in a new bushing. Clutch is excellent now.

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Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat May 25, 2019 4:54 pm

Manalishi wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 4:18 pm
Just spotted this. I removed the pedal and drilled the hole and pressed in a new bushing. Clutch is excellent now.

Image

Image
Great news Henrik - seems to be a common problem! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Thunderbird 2 & The Green Machine

Post by Manalishi » Sat May 25, 2019 5:06 pm

Not sure if its easy to spot but the worn hole was elongated to at least 12mm. The play in the pedal by the clevis was tremendous.
Henrik
Rover 820 Vitesse Coupe 180bhp -93 (Italy)
Rover 827 Vitesse manual (non cat) -89 (Spain)
Lexus GS450h -13
Honda Accord 2.4 Executive -04
Austin Seven Special -36
Austin Seven Ruby -36
Gone:
Rover 820 ti -95
Rover 216 coupe -93
Rover 620 ti -98

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