Fastback's cars.

[scoobyh123]

Thanks Mark, shame they don't explain how it's a 4-way stretch though.

[Fastback]

Basically, my understanding is that it stretches round difficult contours with greater ease because the fabric backing has a greater elasticity. I have done one of my SLFs today and certainly it is much better to shape. It's too late now but I'll put some pictures on later and show the differences. Despite the price premium for this 4D stretch over what I did previously, I wish I'd used this first.

[scoobyh123]

Useful to know Mark, thanks. I've been working on an idea for a while now (only in my head so far) that you might be able to repurpose/redesign to help you with what you're doing.

I'll give you the basic idea as i think it will help but you'll need to tweak it maybe for your own use.

In short, a 2' square by 4-6" deep wooden box with all joints sealed on the ends of each side and where they join the bottom. Top would be what i believe is called peg-board, the sort of wooden boards you see in shops where they hang a thick wire hook in two holes by pushing the legs of the hook in and the thrid leg of the hook locates below.

Different description is a piece of board with a matrix of holes in it.

One side needs a hole in it, the right size for the nozzle of a vacuum cleaner to fit tightly.

The idea is you put the part to be covered on the top, put a layer of the material over it and switch on the vacuum then use a heat gun to help it get sucked round curves and so on.

Once the material has formed to the shape, you can peel it off the lid and wrap it round the edges of the work piece, perhaps with a little help from the heat gun to stretch and make the glue sticky again.

I was going to get the wood to make one about a month or so back but then lockdown hit and i'm not paying ebay prices for something i'm fairly sure i can get for about a tenner from my local timber yard.

It's a DIY adaptation of a vacuum forming machine except they tend to just mould plastic sheets to a shape, this is designed to shape the vinyl to the part and because the vacuum is constant, it's like having a constant even pressure on top of the vinyl to help eliminate creases etc.

Maybe you can find something to adapt to the idea, my original concept was for fitting wood veneer to parts and keeping an even pressure while the glue set. I then realised it could be adapted for use with vinyl film and perhaps other stuff.

[Fastback]

Dave, here are a couple of photos that clearly shows the difference between normal vinyl and 4 way stretch vinyl.






On the top image you see that I had to insert a fillet round the compound curve (a compromise I was prepared to accept given it's in a narrow obscured area of the car). Also I took a much longer but simple line for the join. On the lower image the compound curve has been done in one and look at the corner. One piece has gone round multiple angles. I have been able to have a much shorter join. Bearing in mind that really I'm still learning the material, not a bad result.

I don't know a lot about vacuum forming nor the properties of said vinyls. I think though that one element is sudden temperature change to 'lock' the material into it's new shape otherwise it 'remembers' and returns to its previous form. Certainly this vinyl responds to heat, though I didn't use any as I needed both hands to manipulate the material to the SLF.

[scoobyh123]

Very easy to see the improvement with the 4-way vinyl Mark! I think my idea with the wooden box would work well with it, especially simply placing a sheet over the SLF placed on top, switching the vacuum on and then using the heat gun to stretch it into the corners and crevices, nooks and crannies.

Leaving the vacuum running after removing the heat would hold it in place while it cooled/set and then cuts between the "corners" of openings could be made and the material folded round (with heat where needed) to provide a really nicely finished item.

[Fastback]

It is certainly interesting. Whether a domestic vacuum would be powerful enough and possibly smaller holes than a peg board if you're going to make one. I've got some fabric left over, I could send you a piece.

Anyway, having done my SLF I set about the 'A' and 'B' trim. Here is the 'B' trim before;



You don't realise how grotty they are when in the car. Furthermore, they wouldn't clean up. That paint finish is beggar for holding marks. The SLFs also had signs of dirt and mould. This is what they are now and the 'A' trims.






All ready to go back in the car but I have to do the roof liner first. I'm also thinking of doing the centre console. I have always thought that the hard plastic is cheap 'n' nasty and sqeaks and groans when you touch it. Watch this space...

[Fastback]

The reason I took the SLF off was to sort the rear window out as I believe it was leaking. Although interesting reading about the rubber hatch seal. I have wondered about this also but thought water would effectively be flowing uphill. I did smear grease in the seal as a precaution.

Having had the same problem in the Vitesse (leaking windows), it would only be a matter of time before it happened in the Sterling if it wasn't already. Having got the window out the foam seal was not attached and basically fell off. So good reason to suspect this is the issue. I used a butyl panel sealing strip on a roll. The one I went for was 8mm, which is bigger than the channel it goes in but of course, it does stretch. You can see the foam vs the strip;





The second image shows the sealer in the channel. The butyl will compress even further when the nuts are done up and I fully believe It will not leak again. Flipping hard to take out though if for some reason I need to.

[scoobyh123]

It is certainly interesting. Whether a domestic vacuum would be powerful enough and possibly smaller holes than a peg board if you're going to make one. I've got some fabric left over, I could send you a piece.

Anyway, having done my SLF I set about the 'A' and 'B' trim. Here is the 'B' trim before;



You don't realise how grotty they are when in the car. Furthermore, they wouldn't clean up. That paint finish is beggar for holding marks. The SLFs also had signs of dirt and mould. This is what they are now and the 'A' trims.






All ready to go back in the car but I have to do the roof liner first. I'm also thinking of doing the centre console. I have always thought that the hard plastic is cheap 'n' nasty and sqeaks and groans when you touch it. Watch this space...

Vast improvement on the A and B trims Mark! Since fitting the soundproofing to the trans tunnel, my centre console has been squeak-free - as you've added sound-proofing as well it might pay to try it first.

Don't leave yourself short on material but if you do have some i'd appreciate trying it and quite happy to pay you a sensible amount for it

I had considered making my own pegboard by drilling some MDF, i think commercial pegboard uses 8mm holes so i'd go for 6mm and chamfer the edges of them with a countersink bit.

I don't know about other vacuums but i know mine will pull enough vacuum to suck the vinyl down, especially with a bit of warmth on it.

[Fastback]

It is the hard plastic which I also don't like, it's just cheap . In effect, I have already started on the centre console. Drastically what I have done is is fill all the gap joins with Gorilla glue . The glue has expanded into the joins and removed the flex. I have also put it on the plastic rivots. That already has made a huge difference. Spend another £50 to get soft feel leather look covering? I think it might be worth it. I was thinking of a darker grey more like the plastic colour.

How much fabric do think you'd need Dave?

[Fastback]

Continuing with the redesign of the centre console, I have come up with this;

[Manalishi]

Nice!

[scoobyh123]

Continuing with the redesign of the centre console, I have come up with this;

It's taken me from when you posted it Mark until now to work out what was different. D'oh!

Very nice indeed! Where did you get the veneer from?

[Fastback]

Veneer is available on eBay, where else (£5 a sheet or less)? This guy is selling loads of thin stuff;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CONSECUTIVE- ... 1438.l2649

And again, it looks OEM and perhaps should've been like this in the first place. However, I do have an admission to make. The picture is only a 'visualisation' that I am working towards. That said, progress is well on the way; there are a few companys that can do it and designs are with a couple for assessment. If not, then I will do it myself. I have CAD plans that will translate to a CNC cutter or 3D print a backing to veneer on to. It would even be possible to veneer straight on to the plastic but because I currently intend to cover the console, it is a little bit more involved.

That said, and thinking aloud here, perhaps it would suffice just to leather cover the main body of the console and veneer that panel? Would it look unfinished? It would be a darn sight easier than making a bolt-on piece, viz;



Hmmm...

[scoobyh123]

Thanks Mark, i've not seen those, perhaps because i've been looking for bigger sheets - i'll come back to why in a moment.

Meanwhile, this stuff was recommended to me by one of the sellers that also use veneer on various surfaces :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOSTIK-EVO-S ... 2217086425

Also because i said i was looking at a curved surface, he recommended me to steam the veneer to make it flexible, then get it in position and hold it there while it cools/dries - not sure how to hold it but i'm sure i'll come up with something and you would as well.

Once formed, apply a thin layer of that adhesive to both surfaces (back of the veneer, top of the plastic), wait until they "flash off" and start to cloud over then press them together and hold until it sets - fairly quickly as it's an impact adhesive.

Make sure teh veneer is oversize to start with then trim to size/shape with a scalpel and with the holes, use the scalpel on those as well.

If you want the chamfered edge as per your pic, hold the scalpel at an angle or use a warding/needle file to shape it.

Once perfectly dry, lacquer it.

That's it as far as i remember it, hopefully useful for you?

To make life easier, you could leave the "ski-slope" bit at the bottom of the panel and cover that with your grey 4-way stretch stuff.

[Fastback]

Thanks Dave, I too have been looking at how to deal with veneer. Apparantly a steam iron works well. Scalpel, yes, good ol' Swann Morton No3 handle with 10A blades; what's not to like?

I think I would apply several sheets if I was just going straight onto the plastic, as I would anyway, to build up a thickness. The difficulty as I see it, is colour match and finish. I'm using a similar product to the Bostik, 'AHT 100' for the retrim project and there is a flagship version of it, 'AXT 290'. It's all a learning curve and I'll see how it handles when the veneer arrives.