Fastback's cars.

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scoobyh123
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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:47 pm

It's gassed Mark, but not sufficiently. It should still show a little pressure once the compressor is running, don't forgget the LP side is in fact the vacuum side of the compressor so the pressure there will drop when it runs.

What pressure is it showing with it off?

A small point to clear up - you don't get a puddle from the condenser. The condenser is actually the AC radiator at the front of the car and is designed to cool the gas coming from the evaporator (the part of the system a bit like a heater matrix to cool the car) before it enters the compressor to be compressed again so it can expand after going through the TXV - Thermal Expansion Valve - this lets the gas escape slowly into the evaporator. To expand properly, the gas also needs heat that comes from the incoming air, cooling the incoming air down. This causes ice to form on the evaporator which melts when the car is stopped, draining through a pipe to the underside of the car and giving you a puddle.

If that sounds like gobble-de-gook, go to your fridge or freezer and open the door. Find the cold bit - that's the evaporator. Look on the back of the unit and find the big black thing with loads of fins, a bit like a radiator - it'll be warm/hot and is the condenser.

Usually on the bottom of the unit is the compressor, controlled by the thermostat inside the fridge or in the car, the Climate Pack.

If that lot makes sense (and i hope it does) you can see why i'm saying it's got gas in the system, it's just a bit low. There's enough to fire the system up but not enough to make it cold. When did it last have a new receiver-dryer?
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
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'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Fastback » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:29 am

Shouldn't write posts late at night, it all comes out wrong. Just trying to give an idea of what's working/happening. But if I have a puddle, then I have ice, which means I have refridgerant, I'm just not getting anything cold in the car?

The simple guage (from a home refill kit) shows well into the green 'gassed' area, just below the yellow 'caution'. Switching on the system (auto), both fans kick in and the guage drops immediately to zero. So you think it needs more gas Dave? I will return to KF but need to have a slightly better understanding. I was wondering if there was a circulation issue.

As regards the dryer, probably never and certainly not since I've owned the car (just over 7 years). Rimmers suggest NLA, but there only seem to be a few variants, viz, https://www.autodoc.co.uk/denso/7480123 suggests this one fits. And of course if that is replaced it will degas the system. I don't believe I have any issues, bad smells etc, but might be clogged?
Mark
'96 820 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto
'99 825 Sterling Fastback, up and running :D
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Nuts4my827 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:13 am

Fastback wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:45 pm
Well, it happened!

Image


Image

Apologies for the blur on the second image, I was moving (obviously) and someone else took the picture.

100000 and the Sterling probably hasn't driven better for the last 90000. :D Sound deadening etc really working well and I'm very pleased.

And in other news, the Vitesse passed MOT with no advisories (although probably should) after doing less than 2000 since last ticket.

Its a really good feeling :)

Here is my little moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMV-TDyAsQA

Warning!!! Do not have your speakers up too loud!!!
Phil B
95 827 Stirling: Nightfire Saloon.
96 Coupé 827 Manual White Gold.
97 Coupé 820 Vitesse Gunmetal.
99 820 Vitesse Nightfire Fastback. SERIOUS amount of welding done. Lived in a fettid garage for years.
EX 1994 Saloon Rover 827 SLi White Gold- RIP.

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:40 am

Fastback wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:29 am
Shouldn't write posts late at night, it all comes out wrong. Just trying to give an idea of what's working/happening. But if I have a puddle, then I have ice, which means I have refridgerant, I'm just not getting anything cold in the car?

The simple guage (from a home refill kit) shows well into the green 'gassed' area, just below the yellow 'caution'. Switching on the system (auto), both fans kick in and the guage drops immediately to zero. So you think it needs more gas Dave? I will return to KF but need to have a slightly better understanding. I was wondering if there was a circulation issue.

As regards the dryer, probably never and certainly not since I've owned the car (just over 7 years). Rimmers suggest NLA, but there only seem to be a few variants, viz, https://www.autodoc.co.uk/denso/7480123 suggests this one fits. And of course if that is replaced it will degas the system. I don't believe I have any issues, bad smells etc, but might be clogged?
The purpose of the receiver-dryer is to catch any moisture in the system before it gets into the TXV and/or the evaporator Mark. Moisture in either of those can cause the problems you are getting.

The procedure for changing the dryer is to recover the gas from the system, disconnect and remove the old dryer, fit the new one (the one you linked to covers all 800s) and then vacuum the system down for at least half an hour to remove any moisture that may have got into the system while it was open. Longer than half hour (like 45+ minutes) would be preferable to really make sure all the moisture was out of the system then pressure test or at least make sure it holds vacuum before introducing new compressor oil, gas and if wished, a leak sealer and a detector dye. Then run the system and ensure it pulls down to temp and cycles on/off as it should and that the gas pressure remains as it should when the system is switched off and all restarts as it should.

The only place you'll get smells from is the evaporator area inside the heater box. You can buy cleaning "bombs" and to use them you set the AC onto manual, full fan, all vents open, recirc selected, minimum temperature and all windows/roof shut. Start the car with the AC set as above, pull the pin on the "bomb" and put it in the passenger footwell and shut the doors. Leave it for however long it states on the "bomb".

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STP-Car-Air- ... 2050873349

Once you've got the gas situation sorted, then maybe give one of those a try. Main thing it will do is make the air smell fresher but it removes bacteria etc that may have collected in the water that drains off.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Fastback » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:12 am

Thanks Dave. But who the heck am going to get to do that (rhetorical question)? KF, ATS etc won't, not in their remit and being so provincial up in t' North, there doesn't appear to an aircon specialist within 60 miles of me, which is rediculous.

I'll certainly get a couple or so of the dryers, they're cheap enough and search for somebody who has better kit to do the job.
Mark
'96 820 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto
'99 825 Sterling Fastback, up and running :D
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:29 am

Both of those outfits should be more than capable of recovering the gas from your system so you can safely (and legally) go away and change the dryer then vacuum it down before regassing. It's standard operating procedure to do it. If you have a word with the manager and explain what you want, i'm sure they will be able to accommodate you, if they can't then they're operating illegally without a reasonable competence of how a refrigeration (AC) system works.
Alternatively do you know any commercial refrigeration engineers? A few quid in their beer fund and they would recover it, let you change the dryer and then vac it down and regas with new PAg oil for the compressor etc. They might even give you a hand to do it!

By the way, i don't know if you smoke, if you do resist the temptation to have one while you're changing the dryer. Inhaling R134a with tobacco smoke releases cyanide gas - don't ask me the chemical process involved, i just know it's a no-no! Despite the fact the system should be empty after the gas is recovered, you can't be 100% certain and that wouldn't be a nice way to find out, somewhat terminal to say the least!
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Fastback » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:24 pm

:shock:
Mark
'96 820 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto
'99 825 Sterling Fastback, up and running :D
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Fastback » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:39 pm

As I said, I will go back to KF. But you're saying that they will recover the gas (as it's reusable), wait for me to change the dryer and then will vacuum it down and refill it for no or little extra charge? Of that, I was completely unaware.

And no, I don't smoke. It's lethal enough as it is without that!
Mark
'96 820 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto
'99 825 Sterling Fastback, up and running :D
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:50 pm

Fastback wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:39 pm
As I said, I will go back to KF. But you're saying that they will recover the gas (as it's reusable), wait for me to change the dryer and then will vacuum it down and refill it for no or little extra charge? Of that, I was completely unaware.

And no, I don't smoke. It's lethal enough as it is without that!
I don't know about the cost of it but to do a proper regas they should recover the gas to start with, vacuum it down to ensure there are no leaks and remove any moisture from the system and then regas with fresh oil for the compressor and gas for the system. Presumably the cost should be similar as they're doing the same work, just having a break in between recovering the gas and vacuuming it down/regassing.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Nuts4my827 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:51 pm

Fastback wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:39 pm

And no, I don't smoke. It's lethal enough as it is without that!
I do. And twice, a cigarette has saved my life. Once from decapitation, once from being blown up. :D
Phil B
95 827 Stirling: Nightfire Saloon.
96 Coupé 827 Manual White Gold.
97 Coupé 820 Vitesse Gunmetal.
99 820 Vitesse Nightfire Fastback. SERIOUS amount of welding done. Lived in a fettid garage for years.
EX 1994 Saloon Rover 827 SLi White Gold- RIP.

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Fastback » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:26 pm

I've read a rumour on here that Rover 45/400 ABS sensors will work on the 800. It has been mentioned about the different handedness and of course the lack of bracketry but what about the rubber parts that are different and are they long enough?
Mark
'96 820 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto
'99 825 Sterling Fastback, up and running :D
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:03 pm

Fastback wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:26 pm
I've read a rumour on here that Rover 45/400 ABS sensors will work on the 800. It has been mentioned about the different handedness and of course the lack of bracketry but what about the rubber parts that are different and are they long enough?
They do, use a front left 45/400 sensor for the 800 front right and vice versa. The leads are in fact longer and if you want, you can swap any grommets over from the old to the new but if memory serves, the same grommets are used.
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Fastback » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:59 pm

Well it's worth noting then for those that are unaware, Rimmers are having a clearance sale on 400/45 ABS sensors and are putting them out for £9 a pop inc VAT plus p&p. Some will have got the email others will have to use the promo code UK1020D or EX1020D. Maybe worth getting a couple in?

I can tell you this because I have bought mine now. 8) :lol:
Mark
'96 820 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto
'99 825 Sterling Fastback, up and running :D
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:09 pm

I got mine a few years ago from Best of British when they were selling them at £29.95 + P&P - phoned them up and bought a pair of £58 posted, used one and the other is around somewhere.

Might take advantage of Rimmers flogging them for £9 each though.................. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
All auto :D
Image
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Fastback
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Re: Fastback's cars.

Post by Fastback » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:20 pm

I fitted my £9 ABS sensor today and it's not quite as straight forward as I would've liked. Not hard just a touch fiddly. First, the sensor does actually work, which is important but...;

Rubber grommets are all wrong and there's not enough of them. Obviously with the sensor on one end and the plug on the other you can't slide the old grommets/stress relievers off. I did however slice a couple off and put them on the new sensor, fastened with a small cable tie and insulating tape. The two that are already on the new sensor I was able to invert, ie turn inside out whilst still on the wire and then cut a bit off the end to make it thinner so it would fit inside the reused 800 brackets. Took about a couple of hours with the faff.

So just a heads up for those that might want to do it or for those that can't be ar... er, bothered. £55 plus for a used one (have seen up to £250 :shock: ) or £9 and time. You decide.
Mark
'96 820 Vitesse Lux Fastback, rolling resto
'99 825 Sterling Fastback, up and running :D
'96 825 SLi Fastback, just waiting. :|
Previous:- 'J' 820Si Fastback, part Tickford
MG Maestro 2.0i (I loved that car, I did)

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