Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

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tonewheeldude
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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by tonewheeldude » Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:52 pm

Thanks for the replies, I might be wrong but I dont think the turbo lag will be helped by fuel type or fuel additives/cleaners? Anyway, with regards to fuel, 75% of the time I use Shell Vpower, 20% Esso and when I cant use one of those the other 5% is whatever is at hand (Texaco is third on the list)
Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe (1999)

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:30 am

Give BP Ultimate a try - you might be surprised! Some people find Shell V-Power works better in their cars (mainly petrol) but others find BP Ultimate is better. Those that seem to find V-Power is better have more modern designs of engines whereas the older designs seem to favour the BP Ultimate, be it diesel or petrol.

As you say though, fuel isn't going to make a terrific difference to spool-up speeds although if it is providing livelier performance, it would suggest there is more thermal expansion of the exhaust gases which after all is what spins the turbo up.

Could be worth checking the injector pump timing as well - even a degree or two out will alter the performace considerably as i found out on my old Astra TD van. Had to replace the injector pump and i set it the same as the one that came off where it was sluggish and had loads of turbo lag.

As a double-check, i decided to check the timing and found it was about half a degree retarded. Sod All you might think but i set it exactly right and it was like a different van! Acceleration was totally different (to the point that beforehand i had wondered if it had a turbo but now i knew it did!), in gear acceleration was vastly improved and the best bit of all, the fuel economy jumped from about 32mpg to 47mpg!

Another side effect was on a cold start it was now heater plugs on until the light went out, turn the key and it fired as soon as the engine turned. Previously it had turned over a couple of times before it caught.

Oh yeah, it reduced the amount of black smoke i fumigated pedestrians with when i booted it as well! :lol:
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by tonewheeldude » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:17 am

Thats interesting Dave - I had never considered injector pump timing - in fact did not even know it could be adjusted. Wil lcheck that asap. By the way - remember my car had the wrong battery on?. It just died this morning so about to go and buy a new one.
Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe (1999)

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:38 pm

It's often overlooked Darren because diesels don't have a distributor and spark plugs so people (wrongly) assume it can't be adjusted. Most of the time it can though. I don't know the set up on the VM but on the 17DT Vauxhall engine in the Astra i had, there were three lugs on the pump with slots in. Slackening these and turning the pump would advance or retard the timing but you really need a Dial Test Indicator although i made do with a digital vernier using the depth gauge facility.
Basically you get the engine to the timed point where the specified pump lift occurs (usually at or just before TDC), loosen the adjuster nuts, retard the pump slightly (by turning it in the same direction as the pulley will turn normally) then while measuring the pump lift, advance the pump by turning it the opposite way to the pulley turns until you get the right lift figure and then tighten the adjuster locknuts.
Turn the engine over by hand a couple of turns and re-check it and it should be the same. Often there is a small plug that has to be removed from the pump to insert the DTI probe - don't forget to refit it afterwards before you start the car and take it for a test run!

Let me know how you get on?
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by tonewheeldude » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:22 am

After posting in the wrong thread regarding the slave cylinder giving up on dartmoor here is the outcome.

I spent a few hours on Thursday trying to get hold of the correct cylinder or service kit around Dartmoor/Exeter area for my car with no joy.... although my local supplier in Northampton found one straight away!
Friday morning I called greenflag to get recovered the 213 miles home, they got in touch with a local recover company (Highfild Garage & Recovery in Spreyton tel 01647 231248). I had a call from Sue at their office who suggested they recover the car to Spreyton and try and repair it. I explained about the car and why it might be difficult so she had a word with John - one of their mechanics. He called me back and took down part numbers and all the crossover numbers I had found. A few minutes later he rang back to say he had found a slave cylinder and it would be with them by the time the car was recovered from Chagford to Spreyton.

As we pulled up at the garage John came out to meet me and showed me the slave cylinder - as expected it was the normal 800 part and not suitable for the Diesel. I happened to mention I had thought about getting one and swapping the cylinder seal but its was the wrong size (the diesel uses a 19mm seal) - He immediately knew what to do and the car was unloaded and on the lift. With the slave cylinder off he disapeared into the workshop and came out with a brake cylinder - which had an identical 19mm seal. The cleaned up my slave cylinder and fitted the new seal. within an hour I was driving out of the garage and on my way with a bill for £0.00 !! Because they had saved Greenflag a massive recovery bill Greenflag covered the repair costs completely. Plus they did a great job of bleeding the clutch and its better than I have ever managed. They gave me a spare seal too.

Examining the old seal - there was a slight weak spot where the rod action on diesel cars is not completely true and so the seal wears unevenly and this is where the additional fluid pressure was released causing the cylinder to fail. I think this is why I have had so many blow out (on two seperate 800 diesels ) whilst you guys with petrol engines dont experience the problem at all. I checked the Rover workshop manuals for my car and it does say you should release the pressure from the bleed nipples rather than force it back into the reservoir. Eventually the seal would have gone, but the additional pressure finishes them off. So from now on I will always follow the Rover guidelines.

If you live near Spreyton I would definatley reccomend Highfield garage.
Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe (1999)

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:04 am

Slave cylinder repair kit on fleabay :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reparatursatz ... 5424d4e01b

For reference the OE part number is CDU2331EVA and the listing has a few more OE numbers as it turns out to be the same seal kit used in some Marinas, Saabs and Allegros. They also list a new cylinder for about £35 + P&P but they list it for many other 800s including petrol and the 820/620 turbo. The turbo versions may be another possibility but as i expect you've found, the diesel uses a unique slave cylinder.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kupplungsnehm ... 5d5d7c923c

I started out by looking for Jeep Cherokee 2.5TD and Alfa 156 TD slave cylinders as both of them use the same VM engine. However not much seemed to correlate.

Not sure if any of that is any help or whether you've already been down that route of looking for alternative vehicles.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by mercedade » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:24 pm

That's a great result - congratulations! Must have been a massive relief too.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by tonewheeldude » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:20 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:Slave cylinder repair kit on fleabay :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reparatursatz ... 5424d4e01b

For reference the OE part number is CDU2331EVA and the listing has a few more OE numbers as it turns out to be the same seal kit used in some Marinas, Saabs and Allegros. They also list a new cylinder for about £35 + P&P but they list it for many other 800s including petrol and the 820/620 turbo. The turbo versions may be another possibility but as i expect you've found, the diesel uses a unique slave cylinder.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kupplungsnehm ... 5d5d7c923c

I started out by looking for Jeep Cherokee 2.5TD and Alfa 156 TD slave cylinders as both of them use the same VM engine. However not much seemed to correlate.

Not sure if any of that is any help or whether you've already been down that route of looking for alternative vehicles.
Hi Dave - thanks, although these are slave cylinders and seal kits for a standard petrol 800 - the slave cylinder is completely different on the diesel:
Image

and the seal (17mm) is the wrong size for my car which is 19mm.
mercedade wrote:That's a great result - congratulations! Must have been a massive relief too.
Absolutely! As much as getting to know new folk is great - I was not relishing the idea of spending most of the day in a truck with a recovery chap, plus it made it easier getting my wifes family home too.
Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe (1999)

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:19 pm

That's a total nuisance about the diesel being so unique Darren, i've seen the price on Rimmers and a few other places although EuroCarPrats do one for about £50 and it has a different part number to the petrol one so could be worth a look. Might even be worth investing in a spare and keeping it in the boot or use that spare seal to fix one of your old ones and keep that in the boot.

Either that or learn to drive clutchless! :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Pot hole!

Post by tonewheeldude » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:32 pm

Hit a huge pothole last night at around 60mph - Never heard such an almighty bang. The car now has a heavy vibration right through above 30 mph - and I mean heavy, its not through the steering so I am hoping its only bent the rear rim and not damaged anything else, but its not like anything I have felt before. At the moment I can see any damage on the rims, but its hard to see without getting them off as it will be on the inside.

It wasn't so much a pot hole actually - its where the edge of the road has collapsed leaving a dirty great drop and a gap around 40-50cm.
Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe (1999)

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:15 pm

The way you describe it Darren it sounds as if it will be the nearside wheel and on the inside of that.

Once you've fitted another wheel, it would pay to have the rear tracking checked as there's a very good chance you've knocked that out and a very good chance you've damaged the rear shock.
There's a big dip in the road near me on the left hand side and so far it's taken out 2 rear shocks, one on each Rover. Since then i've either crawled through it or gone round it. That dip has knocked the tracking out on both of mine as well.

Did you have a set of 5 wheels? I know you had the RS 5-spokes but don't know if you had a spare? I'd also be very wary of the tyre on the damaged wheel, there's every chance the sidewall and/or rim bead is damaged badly, rendering the tyre scrap.

Keep all the receipts from any remedial work and any reports on the tyre/wheel from a tyre place then sue the ar5e off the local council for damage to your car! THey might even consider fixing that pothole/crater!
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by mercedade » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:24 pm

scoobyh123 wrote:Keep all the receipts from any remedial work and any reports on the tyre/wheel from a tyre place then sue the ar5e off the local council for damage to your car! THey might even consider fixing that pothole/crater!
The council will only be liable if you can demonstrate that they were aware of the need to repair it in the first place (and that it meets the appropriate threshold for needing work, blah blah blah)

The point being that if you EVER see a mighty pothole, report it as soon as you can because, as soon as you have, the council could be liable for any future damage caused by it.

It's really easy to do via https://www.fixmystreet.com/

*climbs down from soapbox
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by tonewheeldude » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:24 pm

Thanks for the advice Dave. I guess at the very least the inside of the two front tyres are bruised, so will have them both checked along with ballancing and alignment and a check of any other componants that might have taken damage.

Unfortunately I only have four rims so if one or both turn out to be buckled I will need to think about how to proceed - Roversports are not easy to come by and no way will I go back to those prestige Alloys (although I do have a set).

I already spoke to the council to tell them about the road, they were suprisingly amicable and said they would get someone out immediately to check and repair and also gave me the email address and reference number in case I need to claim fom their insurance department.
Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe (1999)

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by scoobyh123 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:24 pm

From how you described it it sounded as if all the potential damge was on the rear Darren - if there's a chance the front got similar treatment then you'll need to get the front end checked, inspected, tracked etc. Don't forget they need to check the rack is central when the steering wheel is in the straight ahead position and track it with the rack central, even if that means removing the steering wheel and repositioning it. However, they MUST track the rear end first before doing the front else the car will crab like mine does because ATS didn't listen. Really must fix my tracking gauges!

If you need to change the wheels then throw that at the council as part of your insurance claim, the only drawback with that is the only genuine wheels available from Rimmers are Prestige alloys at £60 each. However, you could maybe get a set of Volvo S40 wheels out of them instead or the cash to renew each wheel then find some others of your own choosing.

Bear in mind what Adrian says though, if the council weren't aware of the crater then they may try torenege on their responsiblity. However, IMHO even if nobody has reported it, they should inspect the roads at regular intervals - not everybody has the time or inclination to report every little pothole they find, usually because they know the council will wring their hands and moan they have no money to repair the roads!
Once upon a time we didn't pay Vehicle Excise Duty, we paid Road Fund Licence which went to the upkeep, repair and building of the road network. However, in the early 70s the government "diverted" this money into the general coffers and eventually they admitted this by renaming it VED.
Having said that i was watching the local news in my area which covers some areas of Bedfordshire and Northamptonshire and apparently the councils in that area have a new wagon they have nicknamed "The Dragon" because it does hot repairs to the road by heating up the damaged area with fire like a blowtorch, filling with heated stone, gravel and tar and then sealing and rolling it hot which apparently gives not only a much quicker (and therefore cheaper) repair but also a longer lasting repair.

They could probably fix your crater in about 5 minutes the way it's described on the news! Been searching the archives but can't find the report.
Cheers,
Dave

'02 Honda CR-V SE Executive
'99 Jag S Type 3.0 V6 SE


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'94 827 Sterling saloon
'88 Volvo 760 V6 Estate
'95 827 Coupé LPG gone but not forgotten!

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Re: Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe

Post by tonewheeldude » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:56 pm

Front N/S wheel
ImagePothole damage by T_W_D, on Flickr

No visual damage to the rear rim or tyre. I dropped the front rim off at Prescision Welding, they will have it repaired after lunch (£35 plus vat). Once its back on the car I will have the tracking checked and the rear balancing checked just n case. No other visable damage to suspension, but once its up on the lift we can have a good look.
Rover 825 Sterling Diesel Coupe (1999)

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