Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:33 am

Definitely - tbh, I'd be happier pumping another £XXX into it than throwing away the £MORE that I've currently got in it.

Worst (and I do mean worse) case is that I end up finding a new engine (or maybe even contact James about the 'spare' he bought months ago?) but that will only be necessary if something vile is discovered when the head comes off this one.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:30 am

What a bummer Adrian! Kind of spoiled your Xmas/New Year to put it mildly!

I seem to recall James doing the head gasket/water pump etc when he first got the car, it could be a prematurely failed water pump, the whole scenario sounds very similar to my old 420GSi that died in similar circumstances - the water pump was leaking but only leaking inwards so it was drawing air in and creating air locks which went unnoticed by me until they had built to such alevel that almost all the coolant was gone and the first sign was an instantly cold heater (very cold December day when it went) followed by a cloud of steam from under the bonnet and a temperature gauge that rivalled the Space Shuttle in terms of climibing!

Luckily for me i was on an A road, had an empty 5L container in the boot and a garage just down the road i was able to coast into. Managed to refil the system and the 5L container and nursed it home, at which point as it got onto my hardstanding, it shuddered, gave an involuntary rev and breathed its last.

The head gasket had been done by me a few months previously and i'd noted then the head had already been skimmed within a micron of its life, it had previously had the head gasket done shortly before i got the car by a Main Dealer - a Renault Main Dealer with an already poor reputation. Their main mistake when they did the job was not cleaning out the head bolt hole threads, resulting in incorrect torque figures being achieved on the head bolts.
I was lucky and hadn't warped the head that time - when the water pump went, it did a banana job on the head.

Hopefully as Richard says, you'll get away with a skim and a new water pump, cam belt and gasket set. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by CHR15E » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:45 am

mercedade wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:33 am
Definitely - tbh, I'd be happier pumping another £XXX into it than throwing away the £MORE that I've currently got in it.

Worst (and I do mean worse) case is that I end up finding a new engine (or maybe even contact James about the 'spare' he bought months ago?) but that will only be necessary if something vile is discovered when the head comes off this one.
I get what you mean, if you like the car then it's worth it.

I went down the same road with the Mondeo I had and in the end I'd had enough and got rid. Never been happier. :D
Chris
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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:26 pm

It'll be middle of next week before the garage even get the head off, so I imagine I'll have little to report between now and when they find the failure.

They're well geared up though - they've known me for 20+ years and will be first seeking to confirm my diagnosis of water pump failure, because at the moment all I've really got to go off is a better-than-evens hunch. With such a chequered past with cooling, I really need to be sure that there isn't another lurking beast. I'd love to say that pretty much everything else has been replaced (because it has), but one of those replacements is the likely culprit this time around.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:32 pm

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292906451842

Just spotted this on fleabay Adrian, given that James had to replace the head gasket, the new one hasn't lasted long (although water pump symptoms have been evident) and neither has the water pump which i seem to recall was James' diagnosis of the cause of the original HGF, i'm wondering if perhaps you'd be better off cutting your losses and changing the engine. Looking at others most seem to be a lot more expensive (one for £650 comes to mind) so it might be the most cost effective way of doing it.
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:26 am

Cheers Dave. That looks interesting, but I'm going to stick with the original engine unless I discover that there's something wrong with it.

So far, the only thing I know (or strongly suspect) to be wrong is that the waterpump failed (ECP pattern part) and then *Some Idiot* continued to drive it.

If it does indeed turn out to be a totally banana shaped head, unskimmable and currently mated to a block full of mangled waterways, then I'll think again (and ask James about the spare engine he had as well).
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:35 am

I doubt it'll sell that quick Adrian so if you save it in your Watch list you'll probably be fine to find it easy enough if needed.

Until the garage does it's inspection you won't know much more, i'm just concerned that the engine has previously had HGF and appears to have been driven with a constant top up by the owner previous to James, James did all the right things when he did the head gasket and the head was flat so it is all pointing to the water pump. Fingers crossed that's all it is!
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by n1tr0_9 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:09 pm

Oh no! Just seen this! Very sorry to hear the news. Yes water pump was from euro car parts. The o ring seals came from Rimmer Bros and were genuine rover items. I also used Hylomar blue on them as I thought that would help. Head gasket was an expensive metal one and I used new dowel plastic locating things. Make sure the garage save them if they can. That engine on eBay was my spare but I ended the auction early and am keeping it as someone has just given me a bubble 200 so I’m fitting the turbo engine into that.

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:01 am

James - can you remember any more of the history from the previous owner at all? I'm fairly sure you said you knew the owner and he kept topping the water up but i might be mixing it up with something else.

Anything might be a clue, having spoken to you not only on here but at the Peterborough meet (such as it was!) i'm sure you did everything right and possible to prevent further failure so it has to be something you either overlooked or weren't aware of, perhaps a clue from something the woner said at some point - searching for a needle in a haystack i know! :shock:

Assuming the water pump is ok, perhaps the housing/flange it fits into is cracked, doesn't leak when cold but once warm opens up and dribbles allowing coolant out or air in. Likewise it could be a hose failure in that area - until Adrian gets it to the garage and they have a good look, we won't be any the wiser!
Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by n1tr0_9 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:20 am

Previous owner just kept topping it up with fresh water, he didnt add any other additives or anything.

I also replaced the o-ring behind the water pump housing alloy casting thing and the block.

Did it actually lose water or just fail to circulate it? The other possibility is that the core plug behind the flywheel that i couldn't get to has gone, but i would expect you would see water coming out of the bell housing?

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by n1tr0_9 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:23 am

This is the headgasket i used

https://www.gb-ent.com/products/rover-t ... ead-gasket

Its meant to be the best!

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by scoobyh123 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:00 pm

n1tr0_9 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:20 am
Previous owner just kept topping it up with fresh water, he didnt add any other additives or anything.

I also replaced the o-ring behind the water pump housing alloy casting thing and the block.
Hmmm, no real clues there James unless something has warped that you didn't notice like the water pump housing but i would think that would have shown up while fitting the pump.

Fingers crossed it's only a failed pump (under guarantee?) and a replacement HG and it's all good again. :wink: :D
Cheers,
Dave


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mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:59 am

From my original post on it:

"I noticed that temperature in the cabin had dropped and the screen was misting up slightly. I pulled off, and could feel a very hot top hose, but a cold rad and cold bottom hose. Hmm.

With the engine running, I thought I could hear a grumble/whine, but not enough to be sure. When I revved the engine with the bonnet open, I could suddenly get warm water flowing."

I think the pump failed as in it stopped circulating water - probably the impeller separating from the shaft. I ignored the relevant warning signs. But still guessing at the moment.
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by Richard Moss » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:06 pm

mercedade wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:59 am
I think the pump failed as in it stopped circulating water - probably the impeller separating from the shaft.
Certainly not unheard of
Out in the desert with a 1998 Grand Cherokee V8 and 1996 Grand Cherokee 4L. Back home: 1969 MGC GT

mercedade
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Re: Mercedade's '97 Vitesse Lux

Post by mercedade » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:29 pm

Right - this is still going on, although next week is the actual date they are planning to get stuck in.

Does anyone have an opinion on whether or not a headgasket (and head bolts) will be enough, or if a full gasket set (plus head bolts) is prudent (bearing in mind everything was replaced within the last 7 months)?

I tried to get some advice from Rimmers, but to be frank, I didn't get much more than someone reading the website to me (a shame, because they've been very proactive in the past).

I would like to decide between:

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-LVQ701135EVAP

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-LVQ701137EVAP

as sets (any opinions on difference?), or just a gasket like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEAD-GASKET- ... 1c067e4602

HELP!
Adrian
1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (white gold)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 820 Vitesse Hatchback (green)
Gone...1992 Rover Mk1 827 SLi Manual (green)
Gone...1998 Rover Mk2 825 Diesel (green)

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